So Brits who live abroad can now vote in the General Election.

vintage1950

Long-term British expats in EU nations were unable to vote in the Brexit referendum. I think about a million people were affected, am not sure about the figures.

That’s would have made a bit of a difference. Can’t imagine them voting for Brexit. I would have voted then , had I been allowed to, because it was so very important and I really didn’t want to see my country of birth making a huge mistake. For that very reason they wouldn’t have let us vote, obviously.

There is a lot of discussion on some of the remaining forums and most people seem to be signing up to help family and friends to get rid of the current government.

That made me laugh, Maimie

Talk about being hoist with your own petard...

I think this is a storm in a tea cup. I doubt that many Brits who have lived abroad for more than 15 years will take up the option and that the votes of the relative few who do will be inconsequential.

Of course, this isn't a new idea. I recall that Cameron intended to lift the restriction of 15 years, but never got round to it. I think it's got more publicity this time because Sunak is desperately clutching at straws.

Why on earth he doesn't just call an election now and bow out gracefully I do not know. Perhaps he can't bear the idea of the prospect of losing becoming a reality. After all, those chaps educated at high profile private schools don't expect to be losers, do they?

DD is an Australian citizen, having married an Aussie 22 years ago.

No idea if she would want to vote in a UK election. It’s mandatory to vote over there.

She is still a British citizen, has just renewed her British passport, chuffed because it is now Charles.

My new passport was issued on the day the late Queen died and has Her Majesty on it.

Have spoken to my family about this, the children who have passports,visited only once, their lives are in what they call their home country,not the UK. Other family have no interest either, their adopted country is their home.

If being able to vote in British elections depended upon paying taxes here do people think foreign investors who pay tax here should have a vote since they'll be interested in the economic health of the country? My son left these shores many years ago. Hasn't had a vote anywhere despite paying all taxes to his new country. Having recently taken citizenship he'll finally get a vote. Citizenship and residency should be the determining factors.

I think if you live abroad BUT still pay taxes in the UK, you should be to vote, however if you live abroad and have no links with the UK anymore, then no.

citizenship and residency should be the determining factors

Of course Rosie, those should be the determining factors.

There’s nothing I can do about it but I dislike the idea of people who have insufficient loyalty to actually live in the country, or to live here but refuse to take out citizenship, having a say in the country where I am I citizen and is my home.

Not a question of loyalty or non loyalty though. Many of us who were born in the Uk still like the place , believe it or not. There are many, many reasons why people leave. Not all of us despised the place. No, I think the reason we shouldn’t vote is because we are out of touch with what is going on. We only hear biased views from reporters and people on forums like this. We are not really in a position to judge who will be good and who will not. From what I hear, I wouldn’t vote for Starmer but that is just it, I only hear a small amount. I wouldn’t vote for Sunsk, either, come to that. He might be a wonderful leader for all I know from a distance.Just don’t hear much at all - nothing to go on.

Not a question of loyalty or non loyalty though

I agree. Sometimes people live overseas because they met, fell in love with and married someone from another country. Or they find a job, a career which they enjoy more and which suits them better, or are relocated with their firm for some years.

People should not have to stay somewhere where they cannot progress because they feel loyal to the country.

However, I think that living overseas permanently should mean losing the right to vote in your country of origin after a certain number of years.
People might live and work abroad for a few years with the intention of returning one day, or feel homesick and want to return so having a vote for a set number of years is reasonable.

Joseann

👍 sorry forthe mix up, Mamie/*Casdon*. I was throwing clothes on earlier when I read it, (on school run today).

I know numbers-wise it wouldn't happen, but if I was Mark Smith, a plumber, from say Luton and was voting for an MP in a marginal seat, and along come votes from retired Joe Brown and co. abroad, who used to live in Luton, might I not bea bit miffed if their votes upset the apple cart and my preferred candidate lost? My concern would be for what is happening in my home town everyday.

I can understand that in a local election (which we do not have the right to vote in), but surely in a General Election most people vote for the party they want to be elected to govern the country? As I said before, my Tory MP is a good egg, but I wouldn't dream of voting for him.
As vintage50 says, UK citizens living long-term in the EU were unable to vote in the referendum and had their rights removed by people who had no idea of the implications. As I recall, "what is the EU?" was the most Googled phrase the morning after Brexit. How was that fair?

However, I think that living overseas permanently should mean losing the right to vote in your country of origin after a certain number of years.
People might live and work abroad for a few years with the intention of returning one day, or feel homesick and want to return so having a vote for a set number of years is reasonable.

That sounds like a fair compromise. For people living abroad permanently as a resident on a long-term basis = no vote.
For someone living and earning abroad temporarily and with a UK address = a vote.

I'm beginning to think that the issue rests with the two different definitions of the word citizen.
1:a person who legally belongs to a country and has the rights and protection of that country. A native.
Or
2:a person who actually lives in a particular place.

Many of the retirees who have moved to France (or other countries) worked for the State - ie teachers, nurses, firemen etc etc. Those pensions are taxed at source and they cannot claim back the tax paid because they are no longer resident. Instead, they are required to declare all their income in their new country of residence. Tax is calculated on their total income and they receive a credit for the tax deducted at source in the UK. This depends upon whether there is a Double Taxation Treaty in place, as there is in France.

Since Brexit those of us who are resident in France but aren't citizens can no longer vote in local or EU Parliament elections. So we are taxed but not represented.

Nandalot

It didn’t even go to a vote in parliament. It was a statutory instrument. Do they think ex pats are likely to vote with the government?

Statutory Instruments are secondary legislation and have to be laid on the table in the Commons. They can then be 'prayed against' but I assume ex-pat voting went through without objection.

That is certainly true DinahMo. I knew several ex-pats taxed by the UK but without a vote.

M0nica

Well, back in the 1770s, when the Americans were agitating for independence their cry was 'No taxation without representation'.

The modern version of this should be 'No representation, without taxation'

If you do not pay your taxes to the UK, you do not vote in our elections. Possible for the first 5 years, you could keep the right to vote by paying, say £1,000 a year to HMRC, but after that, you really have no longterm investment in this country, so why should you vote?

There are a lot of people who live here but do not pay tax.
They should still be entitled to vote from the age of 18 (or 16) even if they pay no tax.

It’s not really about tax, it’s about investment in the country (not monetary investment.)

since Brexit those of us who are resident in France but not citizens can no longer vote in local or Parliament elections

Fine! If you’re not interested in becoming a citizen of France then don’t expect the benefits. It’s easily solved, become a citizen.

Yes I agree with this.

You pay tax because that's what those with an income should do. If you have a large enough uk pension then you pay tax. In the case of public sector pensions the UK taxpayer is still paying it. Sorry if that makes some of you take too big a gulp of your coffee!

The fact that you have family members still here and you worry about the NHS etc. doesn't mean you should have a say 15 years after you left the UK. No matter how up to date you think you are, how much uk tv you watch, reading the guardian on line, or talking to a family and friends in the uk, you are not up to date. More importantly you don't have to live with the consequences of your vote.

Have a wonderful healthy life wherever you live. Do what you need to do to vote in your new country and leave uk residents to vote for our MPs.

Mamardoit well said! 👏👏👏

My daughter and her family live in Scandinavia. They pay taxes there and have become citizens ( dual citizenship). She feels that she no longer has any right to be involved in decisions relating to Britain.
In contrast, an acquatance of mine worked in the Middle East for most of his life, avoiding tax,has his money off shore and lives in a sunny European country as he doesn't care for the English climate.
He owns a house here still ( several, in fact) and has a postal vote. He has lots of opinions about how this country is run, including criticism of the shortcomings of the NHS, education etc, etc.
I have , of course, pointed out to him that had he paid his tax here for the last forty years these services might, at least, be better funded. I am not happy that he has a vote.

I would be curious about how many ex pats actually will vote. I’m guessing not that many. I doubt it will make any difference at all.

nanna8

I would be curious about how many ex pats actually will vote. I’m guessing not that many. I doubt it will make any difference at all.

I guess we will get the figures of people signing up from YouGov in due course. We have our votes and will be using them. At least the people who wish we hadn't got them back can blame Boris Johnson. 😂😂😂

It is a really difficult question. There is a difference between being a resident and being a citizen of a country - but many people do not seem to understand the difference. Some people are effectively not allowed to vote anywhere. In many European countries you can vote in the local elections after a number of years of residence but never in the General Election unless a citizen. But taking out citizenship can be a very complex and costly that takes years to achieve. Whereas residence in the pre-Brexit era was fairly straight forward process that only took several months.

Some countries do not allow dual citizenship so you would have to renounce your UK citizenship - something that Brits living in the Netherlands discovered post-Brexit. Sometimes decisions are not straight forward if you do not know whether it's a permanent move to another country or not. It's really not realistic to take a new citizenship every few years.

Britain has always had slightly odd rules around voting. As a solely British citizen I was not allowed to vote in the Brexit referendum even though it had a huge impact on my life and residential status in the EU. Yet my sister-in-law COULD vote in the Brexit referendum even though she was NOT a British Citizen as Citizens of the Republic of Ireland and the Commonwealth have full voting rights despite not being citizens (one of the reasons that several leading Brexiteers purchased citizenships in Malta/Cyprus to maintain their EU rights).

Exactly Cold. We have not gone through the (minimum) two year process for citizenship in France because there are lots of younger working people who need it much more than we do. Our son is now Spanish and has had to renounce his British citizenship.
I regret the fact that Brexit means I can no longer serve as an elected local councillor here. I do spend a lot of time teaching English on a voluntary basis, including the French U3A.