Aid for Gaza

Hamas cannot honestly be defended

Hamas are brutal swine, why anyone, let alone a woman can bring themselves to defend them is beyond reason.

The Israelis wanted the women out first rather than the older people or men as they knew that hamas can’t be trusted anywhere near a woman or girl.

Granatow yes indeed but Glorianny isn’t interested in any view point that doesn’t suit her narrative

If HAMAS is given a ceasefire in exchange for some hostages it gives them time to regroup and they have said that they will commit further atrocities therefore they cannot be trusted.

Urmstongran

Which illustrates my point (which you ignored).
Hamas - return the hostages. Now.

Hamas offered to return the hostages in return for a ceasefire-Israel refused.
At the first set of negotiations Hamas wanted to move from the female hostages and discuss older people. Israel refused and walked away.
Why?
Because this isn't about the hostages, it is about bringing Gaza to its knees again, just like in 2008. Israel doesn't want a successful free Gaza,especially now they are finding oil in Gaza waters, which of course Israel conttrols.

petra

Proportionality is the choice of the victim. The heinous behaviour of Hamas on Oct 8th seems to have been forgotten 😥

Absolutely not! Of course what they did will never be forgotten, but that doesn’t stop the world from holding a state to the rule of law.

Which illustrates my point (which you ignored).
Hamas - return the hostages. Now.

Urmstongran

If Hamas gave up their hostages proportionality wouldn’t need to come into the equation. But Hamas choose to ignore this fact. They will fight to their last civilian.

There is little fighting. This is the bombing of schools, hospitals and homes, the killing of innocent women and children.
Killed: at least 28,340 people, including more than:
12,150 children
8,300 women
Injured: more than 67,984, including at least:
8,663 children
6,327 women
Missing: more than 7,000

Nothing can justify this slaughter.

If Hamas gave up their hostages proportionality wouldn’t need to come into the equation. But Hamas choose to ignore this fact. They will fight to their last civilian.

Proportionality is the choice of the victim. The heinous behaviour of Hamas on Oct 8th seems to have been forgotten 😥

Whitewavemark2

What no one seems to understand is that it is all about proportionality.

No proportion is being used by Israel - the government is almost certainly guilty of war crimes as a result.

That is not a government I would wish to support, nor I suspect do the majority of Israel’s population, no does the rest of the world.

Absolutely right

What no one seems to understand is that it is all about proportionality.

No proportion is being used by Israel - the government is almost certainly guilty of war crimes as a result.

That is not a government I would wish to support, nor I suspect do the majority of Israel’s population, no does the rest of the world.

Urmstongran

^ The reason for the poverty, the lack of industrial development, the lack of agricultural development is directly related to Israel's control of utilities and equipment entering Gaza and goods leaving^

Nope, not buying that Glorianny as long as Hamas can build MILES of underground tunnels. Diggers, electricity etc. they haven’t been built out of fresh air have they? Supplies (and aid) seconded by Hamas for their own nefarious purposes.

Sorry it isn't my assessment
The way water and electricity enter Gaza has always been controlled by Israel. In November Human Rights Watch issued a warning about the consequences of Israel completely shutting down the supplies.
If they were able to do this why would you question their control of these utilities. It is well documented.
www.hrw.org/news/2023/11/16/israeli-authorities-cutting-water-leading-public-health-crisis-gaza#:~:text=After%20more%20than%20a%20month,health%20experts%20of%20an%20imminent

You appear to be under some sort of delusion about the real objectives of Israel as regards Gaza. Why do you think they bombed it into complete destruction in 2008? And restricted development? They do not want to see a successful and economically independent Gaza.
Especially now oil is being drilled for off the coast and BP are signing contracts. It's a whole new factor
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/11/british-museum-pro-palestinian-protest-bp-oil-gaza-coast/#:~:text=Pro%2DPalestinian%20protesters%20have%20staged,are%20covered%20in%20Palestinian%20blood%E2%80%9D.

Japan -a sophisticated country and one not at war - took days if not over a week to confirm the number of dead after their recent earthquake. Yet Hamas can produce instantaneous casualty figures in Gaza. Remarkable.

Hamas were the governing body in Gaza and they provoked a war by their barbaric actions.It’s a war that they probably wished they hadn’t started, but it’s too late now.
Tragic incidents happen in times of war, in all wars sadly.

I support Israel! Always have.

But I do not support its expansionist policies nor its current government.

I am stirred by the bravery and self sacrifice of Israeli forces in the face of barbaric hatred. They used their own bodies to protect the hostages whilst under fire from all directions.
Compare and contrast with Hamas. Small details like this really sum up why so many right thinking people support Israel.

Hamas has dispersed Israeli hostages into civilian apartment buildings and is solely responsible for what is happening as the IDF finds and recovers them.

Urmstongran

^The fact that Hamas leaders live in luxury in other countries^
demonstrates to me their own disregard (again) for the people they supposedly represent. They are terrorists.

I think that you are preaching to the converted here urms

We all despise what Hamas has done and stand for, but I also despise what Netanyahu is doing and stands for.

The fact that Hamas leaders live in luxury in other countries
demonstrates to me their own disregard (again) for the people they supposedly represent. They are terrorists.

^ The reason for the poverty, the lack of industrial development, the lack of agricultural development is directly related to Israel's control of utilities and equipment entering Gaza and goods leaving^

Nope, not buying that Glorianny as long as Hamas can build MILES of underground tunnels. Diggers, electricity etc. they haven’t been built out of fresh air have they? Supplies (and aid) seconded by Hamas for their own nefarious purposes.

Whitewavemark2

This is an injured child lying next to his dead mother. Every time someone tries to rescue him a sniper takes aim and tries to kill the rescuer.

None of this must be swept under the carpet.

that's exactly what happened to the son of a friend of mine when he tried to rescue a little girl in Gaza.. He died.. the Israel army is ruthless

There is another image of half of a child’s body hanging from a ruined building, with people trying to get it down. It is too dreadful to put on here, but this is what is happening in Rafah.

This must never be pushed to one side.

This is an injured child lying next to his dead mother. Every time someone tries to rescue him a sniper takes aim and tries to kill the rescuer.

None of this must be swept under the carpet.