A new low

Casdon unfortunately the people who need to read it most are the ones who will and do avoid anything that reveals what they are doing…. because they are doing the right thing!

It blows my mind that people allow their minds to be manipulated out of fear. It’s like “can’t you think for yourself?” Thankfully my friends, family, my tribe - we’re all on the “Sane” Page.

The book is a must read so you can identify the “stirrings” in your place of worship - are there people pushing for different dogmatic change? It’s a movement and spreading, at least in my country.

That book sounds interesting Gundy, the hope has to be that it will reach the people who really need to read it as well as those who were already aware of the issues with these church movements.

I am not going to get involved in this discussion as I have some very strong feelings about what is happening in our Southern churches, mega-churches around the country.

If you are REALLY trying to understand the cultural divide please read this book: “The Kingdom, The Power and The Glory, by Tim Alberta.” It’s new and currently on the best seller lists.

A bird’s eye view from the author whose journey started in a very conservative household with a father that was a very popular and respected minister. And the church’s downfall. How and why it happened… and why it has gathered this momentum, leaving our country on the brink of losing our democracy.

It’s riveting in scope.

nanna8

The church I went to for many years was a fundamental baptist set up by southern Baptists. Many of them visited and some who were temporarily in Australia attended. They were lovely ,generous and kind people, very sociable. They were all republican voters, every one of them. They would rather vote for a monkey than for a democrat. Historical reasons and not because they were dumb, uneducated or what rude people call, ‘rednecks’. In fact the ones I met were highly educated and pretty wealthy. Just saying, I don’t think most of us outside the US ‘get’ them.

nanna8 They [Southern Baptists] would rather vote for a monkey than for a democrat. Historical reasons and not because they were dumb, uneducated or what rude people call, ‘rednecks’. In fact the ones I met were highly educated and pretty wealthy. Just saying, I don’t think most of us outside the US ‘get’ them.

I totally agree. We've owned holiday homes in the SE of USA, Southern Baptist dominated area. Our acquaintances, apart from in our Church, were Southern Baptist. I understand their thinking though it is not mine.

Southern Baptists are typically very well educated, they read the Bible to mean We affirm that any person who responds to the Gospel with repentance and faith is born again through the power of the Holy Spirit. He is a new creation in Christ and enters, at the moment he believes, into eternal life. We deny that any person is regenerated prior to or apart from hearing and responding to the Gospel.

Loose translation: People have to choose to believe for them selves, are not saved by Baptism soon after birth, chosen by others.

They read and learn memory verses, quite literal view to the Bible.

The church I went to for many years was a fundamental baptist set up by southern Baptists. Many of them visited and some who were temporarily in Australia attended. They were lovely ,generous and kind people, very sociable. They were all republican voters, every one of them. They would rather vote for a monkey than for a democrat. Historical reasons and not because they were dumb, uneducated or what rude people call, ‘rednecks’. In fact the ones I met were highly educated and pretty wealthy. Just saying, I don’t think most of us outside the US ‘get’ them.

The problem is that the only Americans we meet are from the east or west coast. Go deep into the heart of America and their are millions of potential voters, who have never been over their state boundary, let alone to another country.

DD and friend have been visiting these parts of the states in recent years and are frequently left speechless by the profound lack of knowledge of anywhere outside their state many of these people have. They recognise that DD and friend speak English, but when they ask where they come from and they say England, it is clear that the local people have no more idea of where England is or what it does, than an unknown tribe living deep in a jungle, never having made contact with anyone but other tribe members., and the sight of an occasional plane.

Trump is a sociopath. Look it up.

For the life of me I cannot understand why the Democrats don't have Michele Obama as their candidate. She would win with a landslide (and her husband would also be at her side). Why the Democrats have saddled themselves with a doddery old fool (Biden) and an idiot (kamala Harris) is beyond me. I feel so sorry for ordinary American voters!

The US usually gets the politicians it deserves Obama was the exception, its crazy politics over there.

Trump has the backing of the Southern Baptists and a huge swathe of Christian voters so he certainly had an advantage there. I can't get my head round exactly why ( he doesn't seem 'saved' to me) but until and unless the Democrats produce someone who appeals to this huge voting mass he will always be a threat. Ditch Biden and look elsewhere US, please!

For Urmstongran, and that "Trump, as in so many other things, is absolutely right." . . .really? What are they?!

He is a sexist, racist adulterer, a proven fraud and liar, a multiple bankrupt (who delighted in stiffing his investors), and a bombastic, thin-skinned hypocrite. Some hero of yours?!

He was a draft-dodger, who insulted McCain and others re getting captured. He avoided military service with 'bone-splints', despite playing several sports in college.

Find the U-Tube clip, from 2015, when on Letterman he had his "I love Amurrrrcan workers" catchphrase exposed, when the host brought out some of his Exec Clothing range and showed shirts and ties made in Bangladesh and Taiwan. Pompous balloon meets expert comedy pin, live on air.

Maybe you're a fan of his obvious lies, as with the 'Stormy' saga, at the start "never heard of her, affair? - certainly not", then (when pictures came out) "oh, yes, might have met her, but I see so many", followed by "payoff?, no absolutely not, why would I", and coming along a week or two later, "oh, OK, the lawyer paid her off, I knew nothing about it", then the (almost full circle, when told that was illegal), "oh, no, not the lawyer, I paid her off, my money, yes, that was it". So, he definitely, he himself, paid off the broad that he definitely hadn't met? Got all that? And that payment, that was for not having an affair, definitely not. Poor girl needed a new dress, & shoes, what's a guy to do? Was THAT one of the things he was "absolutely right" about?!

Dismantling 'Obamacare', yeah, great, go find one of several TV i'views with some of his poorer, sicker voters, who hadn't realised they were voting for someone to make their lives even worse, while people who are quite well off get some more help. The films were quite funny to watch, but the people seemed rather upset, as they were finding out the hard way their hero wasn't going to make THEIR America great again - but much worse. Was that in the "right" category?!

And while he sent their National Debt soaring again, he also relaxed Global Warming & Pollution controls -- got any grandkids or younger relatives whose future you want to throw away?

Amongst a huge number of lies he's been exposed as telling, the "stolen election" is especially obnoxious -- though it gets lapped up by his supporters with an IQ about equal to a 'MAGA' hat (which were Made in China!). Senior GOP figures round the USA have been conceding - after talking to State officials - that the result was fair. Chump & GOP's resources couldn't find much evidence to back up repeated fraud claims, hence they lost 61 of 62 lawsuits (some in front of GOP judges, even Chump appointed ones), and they lost 2 attempted suits in the Supreme Court, which has a famous Republican bias. Several hand recounts in close contested key States found . . . .next to no differences in the original count. Voting figures were very high, for both sides, because of frequent appeals to vote early, by post, due to the expected problems (Covid) of waiting in line to vote in person. That led to the highest voter 'turn out' since 1900 (normally very low in US elections, compared to European countries for instance). NB After the 2016 vote, when Chump & Pence had been claiming voter fraud (in case they lost) after they won they set up a Commission to investigate that fraud. They soon disbanded it, because, it didn't find any.

Sadly the American system sometimes gives voters a choice of 2 lemons to choose from. Did someone mention Michelle Obama? I expect the Dems are trying to get her to run, as she'd easily beat Chump, but then so would Taylor Swift, Tom Brady, Tom Cruise, Hanks, Clooney and other celebs, if they were deluded enough to take on the burden?!

Dickens he is loosing all touch with reality. I would be interested in seeing the results, if he was ever subject to any cognitive testing.

M0nica

Dementia takes many forms.

Well, sure!

But I'm not convinced that's his problem.

I believe his narcissism has gone beyond being a trait and is pathological. He cannot tolerate criticism and becomes viscous and spiteful to anyone attempting to hold him to account.

He revels in the admiration of his supporters, and will frequently indulge in a bit of self-admiration.

Although he obviously didn't intend to shoot anyone on Fifth Avenue, his "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and wouldn't lose any voters, ok? It's, like, incredible" comment (verifiable) surely indicates alarming over-confidence and vanity?!

But, for me, the worst and most frightening aspect of Trump's personality is that he genuinely believes Biden stole the presidency from him, aided by the deep state which has enraged some of his rag-tag army (literally) of supporters, many of whom are armed and, as we saw in January 2020, are quite prepared to invoke the 2nd Amendment to provide a "constitutional" check on congressional power...

As for his comment about NATO's recalcitrant non-payers - in the light of Putin's latest outburst threatening basically to nuke Europe (London first)... either this is more "Fifth Avenue" boasting, or we have to just hope that there are more rational Americans among the electorate than hot-heads.

However, if Trump loses again against Biden...

I don’t think it’s a form of dementia, just plain old narcissism.

Dementia takes many forms.

mae13

I really believe that if Trump, somehow, got back into the Whitehouse then it would spark off another American Civil War significantly involving the out-of-control yahoos who stormed the Capitol on 6 January 2020, backed up by organisations such as The National Rifle Association and the frighteningly aggressive Proud Boys.
Trump encouraged them when he wouldn't accept defeat and he'd do it again - hoping for backing from Putin?
God save America indeed!

I almost believe Trump is paranoid.

Where most politicians accept they will be opposed though of course they will fight such opposition, Trump appears to think there's some deep state agency (agencies) plotting against him because his narcissism won't allow him to accept that he's not the mortal elevated to Divine rank that he thinks he is!

It's rather like he believes it's his right to be POTUS...

I really believe that if Trump, somehow, got back into the Whitehouse then it would spark off another American Civil War significantly involving the out-of-control yahoos who stormed the Capitol on 6 January 2020, backed up by organisations such as The National Rifle Association and the frighteningly aggressive Proud Boys.
Trump encouraged them when he wouldn't accept defeat and he'd do it again - hoping for backing from Putin?
God save America indeed!

Aren’t bonobos those monkeys with rude bums? I’ve got no wish to be able to compare them with Trump! 😲

Thanks, M0nica, you are so right. 👍🏼
That word just popped into my head as I was typing. I’m an animal lover from the git’go. My apologies to all bonobos reading this. Trump is in a class by himself.

Callistemon21 Not to worry. Anything to get out the vote! No one knows if they will stay out of the fray altogether and say nothing, or if they will issue some cryptic message(s) to the younger people, who seem very apathetic towards politics, voting, etc.

Taylor will be smart in what she does. Those first time voters can use some encouragement… at least to get registered to vote, first! More important to get young adults involved in the election process. It’s their future.

Gundy

Taylor Swift is not a dope. She endorsed Biden in 2020 and IF she comes out with an endorsement this time you can bet it would be for the Democratic candidate - whomever that will be.

Together with Travis Kelce, they are the younger generation’s Power Couple If you think that an American football player and a pop culture icon wouldn’t have some clout - think again!

That is truly worrying.

SueDoku

This says it all ..

"He has the understanding of a fifth or sixth grader"

😲 That is so insulting!
I know some very intelligent, sensible fifth and sixth graders.

Gundy you are very insulting about a number of innocent animals. Bonobos are highly imtelligent. Probably more so than Trump. - and nowhere as greedy.

Curtaintwitcher

It seems a very odd thing to say. Has it been taken out of context? He isn't a very articulate man so perhaps he didn't mean it the way it sounded.

He isn't a very articulate man so perhaps he didn't mean it the way it sounded.

An educated (but not necessarily intelligent) man might have articulated it with more diplomacy. But the sentiment would be the same.

To suggest that Putin could - for all Trump cares - let rip on any European nation because they hadn't paid up sufficiently, bearing in mind the consequences such an act might have ultimately on the rest of the world, is not only crass, it's dangerous. Putin must feel a warm glow as he makes his way to that extraordinarily long table he sits at...

And, no - his comment wasn't taken out of context.

Trump appears to have a penchant for tyrannical leaders.

In 2018 he enthused over "Kim" - about how they "fell in love"... how Kim Jong-un had sent him "beautiful" letters

About a year ago, he praised the "genius" Putin for moving troops to Eastern Ukraine.

“Here’s a guy who’s very savvy … I know him very well,”
“Very, very well. By the way, this never would have happened with us. Had I been in office, not even thinkable. This would never have happened."
(Trump on the TV Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Show)

I don't understand why this 'love-in' between these narcissists doesn't bother Trump's supporters.

Maybe they know little about Urup - and care even less, sheltered as they are, mostly, from whatever happens within it.

But being in love with Kim Jong-un...

However, I believe Kim backed out of the relationship later, citing hypocritical "empty promises" on the part of Trump.

Oh, we've all been there Kim - these men promise the earth until they've won you over, it's a tale-of-love as old as the hills.

Curtaintwitcher

It seems a very odd thing to say. Has it been taken out of context? He isn't a very articulate man so perhaps he didn't mean it the way it sounded.

He's a very odd man and it wasn't taken out of context. The trouble with Trump (or one of them!) is that he opens his mouth and just talks drivel. Anybody who watched him come out of the court where he lost his application to throw out the criminal charges must have been astounded as his mouth opened and he just talked nonsense. If he wasn't a politician, he'd be a comedian!