Azar Ali

Glorianny

If anyone thinks antisemites are using Gaza as an excuse the answer is simple, remove the excuse. Create a free Palestinian state. Then the excuse is gone.
I don't think the people who want a free Palestine are antisemitic, many Jews support that idea.
As for Yemen, many of us have been petitioning and lobbying the government about that for years.

So you think the creation of a free Palestinian State would end anti-Semiticism?

Anti-Semitics are motivated by all kinds of hostilities - political, social, racial and economic hostility.

I don't believe a free Palestinian State would end anti-Semiticism.

It's historic, ancient. Which is why perhaps Jewish people feel so threatened - because it's part of their history.

Whitewavemark2

TBH I am of the opinion that the majority of people in the U.K. whilst strongly condemning Hamas, are also highly critical of the Israeli government.

So that is the position I find myself in. A plague on all their houses!

The death, maiming and misery both sides have committed is beyond my comprehension, and my heart breaks each time I watch or read what is happening to so many souls.

TBH I am of the opinion that the majority of people in the U.K. whilst strongly condemning Hamas, are also highly critical of the Israeli government.

I don't know about the majority - but certainly many feel that way. At what point does the retaliation start to become as bad as the massacre that prompted it? The 'collateral damage' is largely civilians - or are we supposed to believe they are all terrorists too? How many civilians are killed in order to eliminate one terrorist? Even war has its rules. Netanyahu appears like one possessed. I think it's possible to become maddened by an all-consuming obsession - a trait which I don't believe is peculiar to any particular religion or race or culture.

London Mayor spoke today of extra police control brought in,
more protection needed for Synagogues and Schools, little
support for Hamas? so not true

Evidence for support of hamas? Well let’s start with a number of people openly supporting them by placards, chanting and emblems sewn on clothing, and there would be far more if they didn’t think the police and authorities here would arrest them.Same for all other countries where the Palestinian protests take place.In the West Bank, 50% of people asked about hamas said they agreed with their actions.Certain imams here preaching hateful messages.I bet there was a lot of celebrating in Gaza by residents too on October 7th as such a large percentage of their sons and brothers and fathers took part in the massacre.UNWRA members took part too.
Anyone who believes that there is little support for hamas is either ignorant of the facts or wilfully blind to it.

Maddyone, ch4 news had interviews with Jewish people in north Manchester - the home of many Jewish people. They all confirmed the issues in your post

Iam64

Ok so now we have international governments blamed for the growth in conspiracy theories

It's quite simple.You ask why Gaza has been occupied by Israel for so long and ignored by the international community in spite of UN resolutions telling it to return land and have a 2 state solution. You attribute that to the support of the USa nd (to a lesser degree) the UK. That support is undoubtedly influenced in the US by the Jewish vote, From there it's a small step to seeing a conspiracy.
Justice must not only be done it must be seen to be done.

Ok so now we have international governments blamed for the growth in conspiracy theories

Oreo

I think that maddyone is talking about the army going into Gaza itself Glorianny and not drone or missile attacks on hamas targets.
Your strange idea of stopping anti-semitic attacks in the UK by Israel doing nothing more and withdrawing troops is just that, very strange. Like stopping a bully taking lunch money by appeasement.
I agree that not all people on the marches here are anti-semites, but oh a great deal of them are!

Is this some sort of campaign to lessen the effect of the actions of Israel? By 20th October there were already 4000 civilians killed in Gaza. These were not Hamas targets
From CNN on Oct 20th
The death toll of those killed since October 7 in the Gaza Strip has climbed to 4,127, including 1,661 children, according to a spokesperson for the Palestinian Ministry of Health in Gaza.

An additional 13,162 people have been injured, spokesperson Ashraf Al-Qidra said.

In Gaza, hospitals are on the brink of collapse due to shortages of power, medicine, equipment and personnel, the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs warned on Thursday.

There is nothing strange about the idea I proposed. Most people find the death toll abhorrent. Many people question why Gaza has been left to suffer for so many years. One of the conclusions they draw is that US support and to a lesser degree UK support have enabled Israel to continue its persecution of the Palestinians. Some then link this to Jewish conspiracy theories. By showing complete neutrality, advocating for human rights and insisting Israel comply with UN regulations these ideas are completely undermined. They will not of course be eradicated, but they will be diminished and antisemitism will also be reduced.
Most people are not antisemites they are anti-Israel and the lack of international action on Gaza feeds conspiracy theories.

TBH I am of the opinion that the majority of people in the U.K. whilst strongly condemning Hamas, are also highly critical of the Israeli government.

So that is the position I find myself in. A plague on all their houses!

The death, maiming and misery both sides have committed is beyond my comprehension, and my heart breaks each time I watch or read what is happening to so many souls.

Imams are preaching support for Hamas.

www.thejc.com/news/brazen-support-for-hamas-spreading-across-britain-since-terror-attack-omsesitj

Corbyn calls Hamas friends , surely this is support

Oreo

foxie48

CoolCoco

Antisemites are definitely using Gaza as an excuse to stir up hatred. If they are so outraged by people being bombed why not march every weekend for Yemen? Why no any Hamas marches?

Anti Semites will use any excuse to stir up hatred, which is possibly why they came out and starting abusing Jews soon after 7/10. Like many on here I don't understand what motivates people like that, anymore then I understand what motivates people to be racist, homophobic etc. However, I think it is a grave mistake to assume that everyone who has been on marches in support of Palestine is anti semitic (which is what I think you are implying). Lots of Jews have been on those marches, in the main they have been peaceful despite some elements trying to stir up hatred. The reason there are no marches in support of Hamas is firstly they would be illegal but more importantly I think there is little support for Hamas in this country or anywhere else for that matter. It is a terrorist group not a Nation state. Please correct me with evidence if you feel this is incorrect. There's been a civil war in Yemen since 2014 when the Houthis took over the government, who would you want people to march for? I can't help thinking the situation in Yemen is very different to that of Palestine, but perhaps you know something that I don't?

Please correct you with evidence?!
In that case where is your own evidence that there is ‘little support for hamas in this country or anywhere else for that matter’
Excuse my bitter laugh.

I have said "I think" that is because I have no evidence to back up a statement. If "you think" differently, then that's fine with me, we agree to differ. If "you know" please show the evidence. I think it would help if you read what I have written more carefully. Notice, I have said "I think" because I have no evidence that it would make any difference at all and perhaps it wouldn't.

Sadly there was a piece on BBC news tonight saying that incidents targeted at Jewish school children have trebled since October's massacre. I'm sickened that children can't attend school safely.
Regrettably I've come to the conclusion that we need to do away with all faith schools in this country if this is what is happening, as it will only get worse.
Antisemitism has been growing in Europe year on year, alarmingly so amongst younger people and school children. DH went on a course recently where there was discussion on the subject as part of a lecture, and football came up as the most common context in which teachers reported abuse towards Jews as a group within the schol environment. Of course, football related antisemitism has its origins in rivalries between fans of different football clubs, but this in turn now manifests itself in school children. What hope is there for the future?
No doubt social media is also responsible for the growth amongst young people.

foxie48

CoolCoco

Antisemites are definitely using Gaza as an excuse to stir up hatred. If they are so outraged by people being bombed why not march every weekend for Yemen? Why no any Hamas marches?

Anti Semites will use any excuse to stir up hatred, which is possibly why they came out and starting abusing Jews soon after 7/10. Like many on here I don't understand what motivates people like that, anymore then I understand what motivates people to be racist, homophobic etc. However, I think it is a grave mistake to assume that everyone who has been on marches in support of Palestine is anti semitic (which is what I think you are implying). Lots of Jews have been on those marches, in the main they have been peaceful despite some elements trying to stir up hatred. The reason there are no marches in support of Hamas is firstly they would be illegal but more importantly I think there is little support for Hamas in this country or anywhere else for that matter. It is a terrorist group not a Nation state. Please correct me with evidence if you feel this is incorrect. There's been a civil war in Yemen since 2014 when the Houthis took over the government, who would you want people to march for? I can't help thinking the situation in Yemen is very different to that of Palestine, but perhaps you know something that I don't?

Please correct you with evidence?!
In that case where is your own evidence that there is ‘little support for hamas in this country or anywhere else for that matter’
Excuse my bitter laugh.

I think that maddyone is talking about the army going into Gaza itself Glorianny and not drone or missile attacks on hamas targets.
Your strange idea of stopping anti-semitic attacks in the UK by Israel doing nothing more and withdrawing troops is just that, very strange. Like stopping a bully taking lunch money by appeasement.
I agree that not all people on the marches here are anti-semites, but oh a great deal of them are!

maddyone

It’s been reported that antisemitic attacks rose rapidly from the morning of 7/10 when the Hamas attacks took place. These antisemitic attacks rose before any action was taken by Israel. This can only be as a result of antisemitism. It cannot be as a result of what has subsequently happened in Gaza, because the bombardment of Gaza hadn’t actually happened at that point. In fact, the invasion of Gaza didn’t begin until 27/10 which is twenty days after the terrorist attack by Hamas. So why did antisemitic attacks rise in Britain and Europe between 7/10 and 27/10?

I donn't know where your information comes from maddyone but it is inaccurate.
Following the surprise attack, the Israeli Air Force conducted airstrikes that they said targeted Hamas compounds, command centers, tunnels, and other targets.[247][282][319] Israel employed its artificial intelligence Habsora ("The Gospel") software with a new and superior capacity to automatically generate targets to be attacked.[320][321] Two days after the surprise attack, Israel said that 426 Hamas targets had been hit, including destroying Beit Hanoun, homes of Hamas officials, a mosque, and an internet hub.[319][322][323][324] Israel also rescued two hostages before declaring a state of war for the first time since the 1973 Yom Kippur War.[325][326] Defense Minister Gallant announced a "total" blockade of the Gaza Strip, cutting off electricity and blocking the entry of food and fuel, adding "We are fighting human animals and we are acting accordingly"
And Human Rights Watch accused Israel of using white phosphorus munitions over Gaza on 10 and 11 October, stating that it violated international law.[333] Israel denied the allegations.
On 13th October the first order to evacuate Northern Gaza was given.

Iam64

Maddy Rose - yes ! Especially the comment ‘there are actions which this country could take to wipe out the basis of antisemitic views which are being spread today’

It’s like suggesting the victim of any form of abuse is responsible for it

Maddy Rose - yes ! Especially the comment ‘there are actions which this country could take to wipe out the basis of antisemitic views which are being spread today’

Quite.

There's so much wrong with this statement. First - being critical of Netanyahu and other ultra-nationalists as individuals, and for their 'strategies' in this war, is not anti-Semitic. People like David Cameron and the UN General Assembly are demanding / asking for 'caution' and a ceasefire are not anti-Semitic. And they are not the problem.

The problem is anti-Semites whose hatred is based on prejudice and ignorance, and those who are driving around or infiltrating Jewish enclaves determined on violence and abuse. No action that we or any other nation takes is going to stop their xenophobic intolerance. They are simply using Gaza as an excuse to justify their bigotry.

If anyone thinks antisemites are using Gaza as an excuse the answer is simple, remove the excuse. Create a free Palestinian state. Then the excuse is gone.
I don't think the people who want a free Palestine are antisemitic, many Jews support that idea.
As for Yemen, many of us have been petitioning and lobbying the government about that for years.

CoolCoco

Antisemites are definitely using Gaza as an excuse to stir up hatred. If they are so outraged by people being bombed why not march every weekend for Yemen? Why no any Hamas marches?

Anti Semites will use any excuse to stir up hatred, which is possibly why they came out and starting abusing Jews soon after 7/10. Like many on here I don't understand what motivates people like that, anymore then I understand what motivates people to be racist, homophobic etc. However, I think it is a grave mistake to assume that everyone who has been on marches in support of Palestine is anti semitic (which is what I think you are implying). Lots of Jews have been on those marches, in the main they have been peaceful despite some elements trying to stir up hatred. The reason there are no marches in support of Hamas is firstly they would be illegal but more importantly I think there is little support for Hamas in this country or anywhere else for that matter. It is a terrorist group not a Nation state. Please correct me with evidence if you feel this is incorrect. There's been a civil war in Yemen since 2014 when the Houthis took over the government, who would you want people to march for? I can't help thinking the situation in Yemen is very different to that of Palestine, but perhaps you know something that I don't?

Maddy Rose - yes ! Especially the comment ‘there are actions which this country could take to wipe out the basis of antisemitic views which are being spread today’

It’s like suggesting the victim of any form of abuse is responsible for it

Anti Hamas

Antisemites are definitely using Gaza as an excuse to stir up hatred. If they are so outraged by people being bombed why not march every weekend for Yemen? Why no any Hamas marches?

Maddy Rosie 👏 👏

maddyone

It’s been reported that antisemitic attacks rose rapidly from the morning of 7/10 when the Hamas attacks took place. These antisemitic attacks rose before any action was taken by Israel. This can only be as a result of antisemitism. It cannot be as a result of what has subsequently happened in Gaza, because the bombardment of Gaza hadn’t actually happened at that point. In fact, the invasion of Gaza didn’t begin until 27/10 which is twenty days after the terrorist attack by Hamas. So why did antisemitic attacks rise in Britain and Europe between 7/10 and 27/10?

You'll not get any answer to this maddyone because it doesn't fit with the narrative that Glorianny and others want. Like you I don't understand antisemitism, and I'll not accept any excuses reasons for it, especially not the "There are actions which this country could take to wipe out the basis of any antisemitic views which are being spread today." As if the UK condemning Israel and voting for a ceasefire would make one iota of difference to the antisemites who are loving the freedom to express their hatred.

Answer - Antisemitism