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The biggest surprise in the by elections is that Reform UK trounced the Lib Dem’s!

(108 Posts)
Urmstongran Fri 16-Feb-24 08:59:29

The Lib Dems were 4th place in both by elections yesterday. Unless they input Ed Davey’s lib dem votes into a Horizon computer? Not seen much of him these days have we? I think he’s toxic for the party.

Moving on. Tory say if you vote Reform UK we are handing the keys to No.10 to Keir Starmer. Well as far as I can see that’s a given now anyway so I’m happy to vote Reform UK at the GE.

They need a boost though. More membership money or donations. Farage joining in some centre stage capacity would definitely boost their ratings.

Meanwhile the Lib Dems must be in turmoil. “We need to talk about Ed” …

Namsnanny Fri 16-Feb-24 17:38:03

growstuff

Namsnanny

HousePlantQueen

bylinetimes.com/2024/01/18/reform-uk-limited-the-political-business-brought-to-you-by-billionaires/

For anyone interested.

3/4 conjecture, opinion ie too many "it was reported, it was said, according to etc."

One out right lie, that I know of.

The rest was a collection of info from the public domain of who funded and by how much. Which I presume to be correct as I havent checked.

Quite poor journalism Imo.

All parties are funded by people who believe in the policies they stand for.
What's so different about that?

In what way is it poor journalism?

As you pointed out, the information is in the public domain and verifiable.

My second point.

A lie is not just reprehensible it is also bad journalism, is it not?

Everyone has a bias, but isn't it better to be aware of it, than be too open to the rhetoric that plays into that bias?

Callistemon21 Fri 16-Feb-24 17:36:24

Sparklefizz

Only 39% of people voted in the Kingswood by-election. That's not many people making an effort, is it?

This is my constituency so we have had a whole rainforest of leaflets delivered over the last month but still people didn't bother. ... perhaps because it's half term here and they are busy.

I disagree that it's a foregone conclusion that Labour will get in. People always like to make a point with mid-term by-elections.

People always like to make a point with mid-term by-elections.

I agree.

Whitewave
Interestingly I’ve just read that the reform vote was by no means composed of fed-up Tory voters. I think that they probably are composed of the rump of Brexiters - so in that case I don’t hold out much for their future.

In fact I didn't think that Kingswood was an area which voted overwhelmingly for Brexit. Wasn't the vote 52% in favour of leaving the EU? About the same as the UK as a whole.

growstuff Fri 16-Feb-24 16:47:58

Namsnanny

HousePlantQueen

Casdon

They are HousePlantQueen. Byline Times is often right, and ahead of the game. It’s definitely worth reading.

Glad I am not alone!

No youre not alone.

I was glad you posted the link smile.

I just think people are too invested some times, in the subject matter to realise that articles aren't as truthful as they seem.

I find what ever is written it is always worth while to check out the language used.

Keep linking! grin

In what way isn't it truthful?

growstuff Fri 16-Feb-24 16:47:24

Namsnanny

HousePlantQueen

bylinetimes.com/2024/01/18/reform-uk-limited-the-political-business-brought-to-you-by-billionaires/

For anyone interested.

3/4 conjecture, opinion ie too many "it was reported, it was said, according to etc."

One out right lie, that I know of.

The rest was a collection of info from the public domain of who funded and by how much. Which I presume to be correct as I havent checked.

Quite poor journalism Imo.

All parties are funded by people who believe in the policies they stand for.
What's so different about that?

In what way is it poor journalism?

As you pointed out, the information is in the public domain and verifiable.

Namsnanny Fri 16-Feb-24 16:33:29

HousePlantQueen

Casdon

They are HousePlantQueen. Byline Times is often right, and ahead of the game. It’s definitely worth reading.

Glad I am not alone!

No youre not alone.

I was glad you posted the link smile.

I just think people are too invested some times, in the subject matter to realise that articles aren't as truthful as they seem.

I find what ever is written it is always worth while to check out the language used.

Keep linking! grin

keepingquiet Fri 16-Feb-24 16:24:57

Yes, her name escapes me too, as do most names these days. To summarise the last decade in UK politics.
Farage, the MEP who creamed off expenses from the EU whilst attending very few meetings for his bucks, formed UKIP which posed a real threat to the Tory centrists.
Cameron, aware that the right wing of his party were leaking to UKIP on their anti-immigration, anti-EU stance, promised a referendum as an act of appeasement to those looking over the fence at UKIP.
He got what he wanted, and had to provide the promised referendum whilst being a pro-European, just to keep the Tory power base united.
Cameron did not believe the British people so dumb as to believe the UKIP propaganda, and so approved a referendum without putting in any real democratic safeguards -ie a sensible voting ratio that would have prevented a Leave/Remain win on only a slight margin.
He promised, once the result was in and he realised his folly, to 'steer the good ship Brexit' unaware it was already heading for the inevitable ice-berg. He soon jumped ship and saved himself from being the worst PM ever by being succeeded by the woeful Theresa May who just couldn't navigate the ship to shore because the compass had been lost in the murky waters of the English Channel. Next? Boris Johnson, who clearly loved being at the helm and announcing to the people who had already gone, about being oven ready whilst floundering on the sandbanks of the Irish sea. Next? Liz Truss, who tried to keep the ship afloat with bags of lettuce but in the end had to hand over to another un-elected PM who just grinned inanely and tried to persuade what few crew he had, that he had five ideas to save the ship, completely unware that the ship was now aground with no hope of moving anywhere.
Meanwhile, UKIP regrouped and re-formed. In their little dinghy Reform are now flying the flag for the right-wing to get onboard. A few swimmers are in that boat, confident that they have something to offer in pushing the 'immigrants' back with their short and badly made paddles. It maybe some others will join the flotilla espousing the Dunkirk spirit, but not only are their boats inadequate for the job, they have nothing but waving flags to attract the poor swimmers who once they arrive cold and exhausted on the good ship Reform, will find themselves bringing down the whole thing and sinking into the bottom of the briny sea.
Meanwhile Labour have a nice cuppa in Downing Street and begin the process of restoring the sinking reputation of our tattered and bruised island nation.

No apologies for this post- I got a lot of my chest!

HousePlantQueen Fri 16-Feb-24 15:59:39

Casdon

They are HousePlantQueen. Byline Times is often right, and ahead of the game. It’s definitely worth reading.

Glad I am not alone!

Casdon Fri 16-Feb-24 15:51:57

They are HousePlantQueen. Byline Times is often right, and ahead of the game. It’s definitely worth reading.

HousePlantQueen Fri 16-Feb-24 15:43:03

Fair enough. I just thought a few people may be interested in an opinion not churned out by an overseas, non tax paying newspaper owner.

Namsnanny Fri 16-Feb-24 15:13:17

HousePlantQueen

bylinetimes.com/2024/01/18/reform-uk-limited-the-political-business-brought-to-you-by-billionaires/

For anyone interested.

3/4 conjecture, opinion ie too many "it was reported, it was said, according to etc."

One out right lie, that I know of.

The rest was a collection of info from the public domain of who funded and by how much. Which I presume to be correct as I havent checked.

Quite poor journalism Imo.

All parties are funded by people who believe in the policies they stand for.
What's so different about that?

Grantanow Fri 16-Feb-24 15:06:27

I think the Lib Dems underperformed because they are saddled with Ed Davey and his role as post office Minister. They should ditch him.

Namsnanny Fri 16-Feb-24 15:05:09

IMO they are narrow minded, divisive and insular lizziedrip if you have the time, could you expand?

I'm in a pickle with regards to who I vote for. They all seem in a shambles.

LizzieDrip Fri 16-Feb-24 14:51:24

This Labour voter will be voting Labour! I would never vote Lib Dem and certainly wouldn’t ever give Reform my vote - IMO they (Reform) are divisive, narrow-minded and insular. I’m surprised that anyone gives them the time of day!

growstuff Fri 16-Feb-24 14:39:58

Casdon

MayBee70

growstuff

Nicenanny3

Liberal Democrats lose their deposits in both by-elections
Party’s share of vote plummets on 2019 election result as it receives less than five per cent of votes cast and forfeits the £500 payment(Daily Telegraph)

Bet Ed's not a happy bunny today😊

Unless there was a 'behind the scenes' agreement to give Labour a better chance ...

Not necessarily the parties themselves but voters sensibly voting tactically.

The Lib Dem’s have never done well in either of these seats, I think that is the material point. There didn’t need to be any behind the scenes deal with Labour, who convincingly won both seats.
What I didn’t realise is that part of the Kingswood constituency will fall in with the constituency of Jacob Rees Mogg in the general election. That will be interesting.

I think it's going to be very difficult to predict results in some seats. Boundary changes and tactical voting will have to be factored in.

Anniebach Fri 16-Feb-24 14:34:56

Ed Davey has said of the campaign in the two seats, ‘we didn’t
take them too seriously’, ! !

Oldnproud Fri 16-Feb-24 14:26:04

Urmstongran

Where is Ed??

Unfortunately, I think the main question for too many people would be not "where is Ed?" but "Who is Ed?".

He might be a really nice man (I have no idea), but lacks the qualities needed to lead the Lib Dems. The word 'nonentity' comes to mind.

How many people would even recognise him or be able to name him if he appeared on their screens without a caption?

The party needs a much stronger, more visible and vocal leader, someone people actually notice when he or she speaks, even if they don't agree with what is being said. Someone who attracts the attention of the media.

It's true what they say: " you've got to be in it to win it ", and unfortunately the LibDems haven't come close to being in it with Ed as their leader

Casdon Fri 16-Feb-24 13:50:35

Is anybody saying that it is a foregone conclusion that Labour will get in at the general election Sparklefizz, I haven’t heard that either in the media or on Gransnet. I don’t think you’d find any Labour supporters saying any such thing?

GrannyGravy13 Fri 16-Feb-24 13:49:19

growstuff

GrannyGravy13

This Conservative voter would never vote Lib Dem’s.

No idea who is standing in my constituency.

I disagree. I think they will.

I have no idea how others will vote, I just know that I will not vote Lib Dem.

Casdon Fri 16-Feb-24 13:48:23

MayBee70

growstuff

Nicenanny3

Liberal Democrats lose their deposits in both by-elections
Party’s share of vote plummets on 2019 election result as it receives less than five per cent of votes cast and forfeits the £500 payment(Daily Telegraph)

Bet Ed's not a happy bunny today😊

Unless there was a 'behind the scenes' agreement to give Labour a better chance ...

Not necessarily the parties themselves but voters sensibly voting tactically.

The Lib Dem’s have never done well in either of these seats, I think that is the material point. There didn’t need to be any behind the scenes deal with Labour, who convincingly won both seats.
What I didn’t realise is that part of the Kingswood constituency will fall in with the constituency of Jacob Rees Mogg in the general election. That will be interesting.

MayBee70 Fri 16-Feb-24 13:41:34

growstuff

Nicenanny3

Liberal Democrats lose their deposits in both by-elections
Party’s share of vote plummets on 2019 election result as it receives less than five per cent of votes cast and forfeits the £500 payment(Daily Telegraph)

Bet Ed's not a happy bunny today😊

Unless there was a 'behind the scenes' agreement to give Labour a better chance ...

Not necessarily the parties themselves but voters sensibly voting tactically.

Sparklefizz Fri 16-Feb-24 13:34:48

Only 39% of people voted in the Kingswood by-election. That's not many people making an effort, is it?

This is my constituency so we have had a whole rainforest of leaflets delivered over the last month but still people didn't bother. ... perhaps because it's half term here and they are busy.

I disagree that it's a foregone conclusion that Labour will get in. People always like to make a point with mid-term by-elections.

CoolCoco Fri 16-Feb-24 13:23:42

Reform had some shiny new liveried bus on their electioneering - must have cost a pretty penny. Wonder who paid for that?

Galaxy Fri 16-Feb-24 13:22:36

It's not really about what happens at this election in my view.

Casdon Fri 16-Feb-24 13:09:56

In the 2015 general election UKIP got 15% of the vote in Kingswood, and 19% in Wellingborough. I’d conclude that the same people are voting for Reform who voted for UKIP then ( but a few % less).

Talk of the demise of the Lib Dem’s is unfounded in my opinion. these are seats where they have historically not done well, and have lost their deposit before too. They know how to pick their battles, and they will contest very strongly in seats where there is a chance of them beating the Tories. I’d be very surprised if they have less than 30 seats at the General Election. I’d be even more surprised if Reform have any at all.

HousePlantQueen Fri 16-Feb-24 13:01:37

bylinetimes.com/2024/01/18/reform-uk-limited-the-political-business-brought-to-you-by-billionaires/

For anyone interested.