The vote on the call for ceasefire in Gaza

Whitewavemark2

^What we do have are reports and videos from doctors (many British) and aid workers serving in Gaza. I think that we are pretty clear that the situation is pretty dire.

Today I watched a video of a young child who had walked 12 Kms -barefoot- in order to get flour for his family. He was in tears because he was lost and unable to find flour.

It is obvious from just looking at the people that they have very limited access to water etc as their clothes are so dirty. We are also beginning to see sure signs of starvation in children.^

It’s utterly tragic to hear and see these stories and whilst this continues no more hostages will be released. Awful and sad.

“…Lose our right…”

Vintagewhine

The right for people in this country to hold peaceful demonstrations is an important part of our democracy. The huge majority of people on these demos have been peaceful and are representative of our whole population. To describe them as islamists or supporters of Hamas is total rubbish. It's's important that our right to protest is protected. Try protesting in Russia and any other undemocratic country. Police have to deal with protests in a practical way. Radio 4 news had a good discussion about this at 08.10 ish, worth a listen.

I agree. We must never our right to protest. We must also be mindful of others and not be intimating to others with opposing views.

I still think it’s possible to have a ceasefire 🙏🙏

What we do have are reports and videos from doctors (many British) and aid workers serving in Gaza. I think that we are pretty clear that the situation is pretty dire.

Today I watched a video of a young child who had walked 12 Kms -barefoot- in order to get flour for his family. He was in tears because he was lost and unable to find flour.

It is obvious from just looking at the people that they have very limited access to water etc as their clothes are so dirty. We are also beginning to see sure signs of starvation in children.

Vintagewhine

Hopefully there will be a ceasefire, I think because the IDF 's version of the deaths and injuries caused by the aid delivery has been discredited to a large degree, it may have put the Israeli govt on the back foot. The world needs to have correspondents in Gaza to verify what is going on as I'm afraid I cannot trust Hamas or the Israeli govt to tell the truth . The aid situation has to be resolved as it's inhumane to have people starving to death when food could be available.

Journalists are not allowed into Gaza. Some organisations' representatives are apparently allowed to embed with the IDF but anything they want to publish has to be pre-reviewed.

If there are no independent voices, then we are left with Hamas' version of events or the IDF's.

Israel says this is for the protection of the journalists as their safety cannot be guaranteed. I'd imagine any war-correspondent or journalist would be very much aware of that inevitable fact...

It is said that the first casualty of war is the truth. In this case, I trust neither Hamas nor the Israeli government.

Journalists / war correspondents should be allowed into Gaza. All we have now is unverified reports from both sides which gives rise to speculation and just serves to fan the flames of anti-Semitism and anti-Muslim hatred and abuse. And not just here in the UK.

Surely Netanyahu is perfectly within his rights to insist on the release of all the Israeli hostages in exchange for a pause in fighting?
At the moment there is only talk of the old, sick and injured to be released. How agonising for the families of the others.

I also don’t understand why any deal always seems to be weighed in favour of Hamas with more Palestinian prisoners released then the hostages.

The hostages are completely innocent, while the Palestinian prisoners are criminals, some of whom are Hamas fighters.

More civilian casualties in Gaza that in Ukraine!

Hopefully there will be a ceasefire, I think because the IDF 's version of the deaths and injuries caused by the aid delivery has been discredited to a large degree, it may have put the Israeli govt on the back foot. The world needs to have correspondents in Gaza to verify what is going on as I'm afraid I cannot trust Hamas or the Israeli govt to tell the truth . The aid situation has to be resolved as it's inhumane to have people starving to death when food could be available.

Report that Israel has accepted a 6 week ceasefire - Hamas has yet to respond, although I did read that they had contact with Egypt and Qatar before the official ceasefire talks began in Paris, and suspect that the bones of the agreement were laid out then, so it seems still on course for Biden’s optimism that it would be agreed next week.

Funny though how time and events change what is considered acceptable. Emily Wilding Davison wrote on a paper wrapped around a stone she was throwing "Rebellion against Tyrants is obedience to God". Now that wouldn't go down well today!!!

maddyone

Peaceful protest is our right.
Inflammatory phrases on placards and the seat of our democracy and antisemitic chants are not peaceful. They are designed to be inflammatory.

Of course they are wrong, I don't think anyone would disagree with you, as is inflammatory language used by politicians. It's a sad fact that there will always be people who break the law but the vast majority of people are protesting peacefully, as is their right and that right needs to be acknowledged and protected as it is the only way that ordinary citizens can tell govt that they disagree with something apart from at the ballot box.

maddyone Thu 29-Feb-24 09:40:26
Peaceful protest is our right.
Inflammatory phrases on placards and the seat of our democracy and antisemitic chants are not peaceful. They are designed to be inflammatory.

Agree

Currently, prominent violators of these freedom include Russia, Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgystan, Belarus, and Russian-occupied Crimea and the Russian-separatist occupied territories of eastern Ukraine.

I suppose we could join this rabble and stop protests?

Peaceful protest is our right.
Inflammatory phrases on placards and the seat of our democracy and antisemitic chants are not peaceful. They are designed to be inflammatory.

Vintagewhine

The right for people in this country to hold peaceful demonstrations is an important part of our democracy. The huge majority of people on these demos have been peaceful and are representative of our whole population. To describe them as islamists or supporters of Hamas is total rubbish. It's's important that our right to protest is protected. Try protesting in Russia and any other undemocratic country. Police have to deal with protests in a practical way. Radio 4 news had a good discussion about this at 08.10 ish, worth a listen.

Totally. We should be grateful we have the freedom to protest, whether we as individuals attend or not. As Vintagewhine
stated, try doing it in Russia. Or China. You'd never be seen again.

The right for people in this country to hold peaceful demonstrations is an important part of our democracy. The huge majority of people on these demos have been peaceful and are representative of our whole population. To describe them as islamists or supporters of Hamas is total rubbish. It's's important that our right to protest is protected. Try protesting in Russia and any other undemocratic country. Police have to deal with protests in a practical way. Radio 4 news had a good discussion about this at 08.10 ish, worth a listen.

maddyone

I really don’t know what the people protesting in London don’t understand about us not being able to influence whether or not there will be a ceasefire.

They want to influence MP’s to vote for a ceasefire then the next step will be trying to get MP’s to vote for refusal of selling arms to Israel.
There will be more intimidation of MP’s and blackmail too, do this that or the other or we won’t vote Labour.
Hope it will be strongly resisted, but who knows?

I really don’t know what the people protesting in London don’t understand about us not being able to influence whether or not there will be a ceasefire.

Neither does Netanyahu if the reports about both groups are correct.

🤔 so people are marching on the streets of London demanding a ceasefire, but Hamas don’t want one?

The armed wing of Palestinian militant group Hamas on Wednesday said it launched two missile salvos consisting of 40 Grad missiles from southern Lebanon into northern Israel.

Al-Qassam Brigades said in a statement on its Telegram channel it had bombed the headquarters of the 769th Eastern Brigade and the airport barracks in Beit Hilal.

No ceasefire then.

maddyone

I’m not sure that Israel will go for only forty hostages being released opposed to four hundred prisoners.

Doubtful isn’t it?
Sounds like no nearer a solution just yet.

If forty hostages can be released it rather suggests that they know where they are contrary to some suggestions on Gransnet that they can’t be released because they’ll no longer know where they are.

maddyone

I’m not sure that Israel will go for only forty hostages being released opposed to four hundred prisoners.

The last hostage release ratio was 1 - 3 (one hostage for every three prisoners)

JacquiG

Quite right. People get tired of being terrorised and eventually fight back. Palestinians have been terrorised since their land was designated the new Israel by the League of Nations, by gangs such as Stern, Irgunn, Lehi, and others. It's worth reading the history, which shocked me, so currently reading more about it. There is a book by President Carter which I've started reading called 'Peace for Palestine' I think. Very measured so far and a good history as the preface. At the start he thinks the setup is wonderful, and reading on, he's seeing flaws. Good articles too in The Journal of Conflict. It needs to stop. This repeated carnage must not go on.

This! I agree. I also pray for a complete ceasefire and release of all hostages. 🙏🙏