Islamaphobia is getting out of control

Sorry growstuff I follow talk guidelines that's the only direction I take on GN about how and where to post.

growstuff

M0nica
Some posters do seem to see bigotry under every fallen leaf. It is right and proper that we should all be able to criticise something without being seen as bigotted. That is what free speech is.

It does not follow that because a group can claim to being discrimiated against, that criticism of an individual in that group is not justified.
I absolutely agree.

Many people (including me) utterly condemn the actions of Hamas and other Muslim terrorist groups, as they condemn the actions of the Israeli state in Palestine. That condemnation isn't anti-semitic or Islamophobic. They don't hold all Jews or all Muslims responsible for the actions of small groups.

A historical understanding of the context of the current conflict isn't bigoted either. There are parallels with many examples of ethnic-based bigotry and hatred across the world.

I completely agree

M0nica

Some posters do seem to see bigotry under every fallen leaf. It is right and proper that we should all be able to criticise something without being seen as bigotted. That is what free speech is.

It does not follow that because a group can claim to being discrimiated against, that criticism of an individual in that group is not justified.

I absolutely agree.

Many people (including me) utterly condemn the actions of Hamas and other Muslim terrorist groups, as they condemn the actions of the Israeli state in Palestine. That condemnation isn't anti-semitic or Islamophobic. They don't hold all Jews or all Muslims responsible for the actions of small groups.

A historical understanding of the context of the current conflict isn't bigoted either. There are parallels with many examples of ethnic-based bigotry and hatred across the world.

GrannyGravy13

maddyone

And much barely concealed antisemitism. On this and other threads.

Unfortunately true maddyone

On this thread?

I wasn't aware that any GN posters have been deleted for anti-semiticism.

Maybe you could start a thread about it because this thread is about Islamophobia. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

SeaWoozle

Galaxy

Seawoozle there are people on GN who are lecturing about racism who have been deleted for antisemitism, its not possible for me to take their lectures seriously.

I haven't been here long enough to know about that, but if that's true then they have no right to a platform. Some of the comments here, if posted on Twitter, would be mass reported and the poster suspended, if not banned.

Gosh, I didn’t know that either Galaxy, that’s serious. I have seen a few antisemitic remarks on threads, from the same few people, but I think the majority who have commented on this thread aren’t coming from that perspective, but rather as Monica said, trying to put what is happening with Islamic extremists into a wider historical and current context of extremism. I still think that is relevant myself, and not whataboutery.

Galaxy

The power to control speech. People chunter on about the influence the Mail etc have, it is irrelevant compared to the impact social media can have. It's a very bad idea to place the control of speech in the hands of a small number of individuals.
I am not sure what the answer is, free speech is a complex thing, but its certainly not banning people I might disagree with. We would all end up talking to ourselves

I'd agree. But when it becomes a matter of people inciting violence or persuading others to respond in a certain way.....where do you draw the line? It's a tricky one......

The power to control speech. People chunter on about the influence the Mail etc have, it is irrelevant compared to the impact social media can have. It's a very bad idea to place the control of speech in the hands of a small number of individuals.
I am not sure what the answer is, free speech is a complex thing, but its certainly not banning people I might disagree with. We would all end up talking to ourselves

SeaWoozle

Galaxy

And you want the people who run Twitter to have the power to do that. Good luck with that.

The power to do what? Get people banned? It happens. But folk just set up new accounts.

Yep, setting up new accounts, happens often on GN, but thankfully they get found out. Usually by their posting style and opinions.

Galaxy

And you want the people who run Twitter to have the power to do that. Good luck with that.

The power to do what? Get people banned? It happens. But folk just set up new accounts.

And you want the people who run Twitter to have the power to do that. Good luck with that.

Despite my protestations that people have a right to free speech, with that comes responsibility. And if it means you get banned, then so be it.....

Galaxy

Seawoozle there are people on GN who are lecturing about racism who have been deleted for antisemitism, its not possible for me to take their lectures seriously.

I haven't been here long enough to know about that, but if that's true then they have no right to a platform. Some of the comments here, if posted on Twitter, would be mass reported and the poster suspended, if not banned.

maddyone

And much barely concealed antisemitism. On this and other threads.

Unfortunately true maddyone

Seawoozle there are people on GN who are lecturing about racism who have been deleted for antisemitism, its not possible for me to take their lectures seriously.

And much barely concealed antisemitism. On this and other threads.

M0nica

Some posters do seem to see bigotry under every fallen leaf. It is right and proper that we should all be able to criticise something without being seen as bigotted. That is what free speech is.

It does not follow that because a group can claim to being discrimiated against, that criticism of an individual in that group is not justified.

I will defend someone's right to free speech. I will also defend someone's right to respond. There are a few people in this forum who are unable to have reasoned debate WITHOUT coming across as racist and bigoted.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Or a belief system/religion in particular.

Some posters do seem to see bigotry under every fallen leaf. It is right and proper that we should all be able to criticise something without being seen as bigotted. That is what free speech is.

It does not follow that because a group can claim to being discrimiated against, that criticism of an individual in that group is not justified.

Oreo

It’s possible to have sympathy with both forms of course, but have been reading these kind of threads ever since the hellish events of 7th October and saddened to see the sheer amount of antisemitic comments and feelings, often slightly disguised and sometimes not, and yes thanks I do know the difference between criticism of the Israeli government and Jews in Israel and elsewhere.Am not the only poster who’s noticed this.

It's good to see you calling out bigotry Oreo, as there's plenty of it on GN, directed at different groups. However, as this thread is specifically about Islamophobia I wonder if it might be more appropriate if you start a new thread.

For those who think comparisons should not be made with other groups and other times, you have clearly never lisened to the R4 programme 'The long View' introduced by Jonathon Freedland. which is described as series in which stories from the past are compared with current events.

This programme does just what we are doing here making comparisons with broadly similar events, one current and others historic, whether Islamophobia, anti-Semitism or the persecution faced by Irish catholics

No Oreo

It’s possible to have sympathy with both forms of course, but have been reading these kind of threads ever since the hellish events of 7th October and saddened to see the sheer amount of antisemitic comments and feelings, often slightly disguised and sometimes not, and yes thanks I do know the difference between criticism of the Israeli government and Jews in Israel and elsewhere.Am not the only poster who’s noticed this.

foxie48

Oreo

Happens all the time to Jews growstuff do you have the same sympathy?

Why on earth would anyone think that because someone calls out Islamaphobia that they wouldn't do exactly the same because someone is being anti semitic? It is such an odd way to think. If you believe that unfair discrimination is wrong, it really doesn't matter if it against Jews, Catholics, Muslims, gays or any other group. It is all equally wrong and should be recognised and called out for what it is.

I agree with you. It's very weird. Are sympathy and empathy subject to rationing or something?

Oreo

Happens all the time to Jews growstuff do you have the same sympathy?

Yes.