Islamaphobia is getting out of control

The ira supported other terrorist groups, I expect the other paramilitaries did
When I was a teen it was expected the groom or bride would convert to Catholicism and that children be brought up catholic

Agree KatieI see no comparison

An interesting comparison, I don’t remember the Irish Catholics sponsoring global terrorism, or declaring Jihad, although there was a lot of suspicion during the troubles, their culture was pretty much the same as ours and they integrated easily.
Islam is a much stronger religion expanding worldwide and in many inter religious marriages involves conversion to Islam rather than no religion as so many Christians have chosen.

Sago Oh yes they were, during the troubles in Ireland. I worke with Irish people with irish accents, all of them told of deep suspicions or prejudice. In the 1960s-1980s they were behind almost every terrorist outrage in this country and in Northern ireland.

Sago, Irish catholics were certainly seen as terrorist threats in the late 70’s. Friends of mine had their house turned upside down. She was Irish, he was first generation Irish/english. He a lecturer she had 4 foster children and two of their own. Babies woken as cots searched

M0nica

Katie59 On p23 10.16 I make the argument that what you are saying now was said about Irish Catholic immigrants in my life time.

You have not addressed the issue of why you think it will be any different with the muslim population. Essentially there were fears that Irish Catholics, who had larger families and a church that banned the use of contraception, would outbreed everyone else and take over with their authoritarian priest-led religion. That didn't happen because, with each succeeding generation, they conformed more and more to general society norms. Family size fell, mixed marriages took place.

This is already taking place in the muslim community.

So why should what happens among the muslim community be any diffeent to that that happened among Irish catholics, of which I am one (in a mixed marriage with 2 children)

Unfortunately the majority of terrorist attacks in this country were perpetrated by Muslims.
This is why people are so nervous.
Irish Catholics ( of which I am ) were not a terrorist threat.

Thank you MOnica.
The voice of logical reasoning.

Katie59 On p23 10.16 I make the argument that what you are saying now was said about Irish Catholic immigrants in my life time.

You have not addressed the issue of why you think it will be any different with the muslim population. Essentially there were fears that Irish Catholics, who had larger families and a church that banned the use of contraception, would outbreed everyone else and take over with their authoritarian priest-led religion. That didn't happen because, with each succeeding generation, they conformed more and more to general society norms. Family size fell, mixed marriages took place.

This is already taking place in the muslim community.

So why should what happens among the muslim community be any diffeent to that that happened among Irish catholics, of which I am one (in a mixed marriage with 2 children)

Kandinsky

*I’m not that bothered about Muslims influencing the UK because Muslim society is not liberal, freedom of speech in countries with any substantial Muslim population is limited, so the PC liberals in the UK will be disappointed*

Exactly.
Muslims are extremely conservative so not sure why the woke liberals are happy for them to take over ( politically )
Another mystery.

What on earth does this mean - woke liberals being happy to let Muslims take over?

Ok katie59 the decline in Christianity is the fault of boomers. Are you a boomer? It’s an offensive term but I accept I’m a boomer. I was brought up a Christian, repeated that with my children.
If people are leaving Christianity maybe the Churches need to look at themselves and wonder how congregations can increase

Further to the discussion earlier in the thread where right wing extremism’s impact was disputed, this is on today’s news. Truly shocking.
news.sky.com/story/three-men-charged-with-preparing-act-of-terrorism-after-suspected-extreme-right-wing-activity-13081942

I’m not that bothered about Muslims influencing the UK because Muslim society is not liberal, freedom of speech in countries with any substantial Muslim population is limited, so the PC liberals in the UK will be disappointed

Exactly.
Muslims are extremely conservative so not sure why the woke liberals are happy for them to take over ( politically )
Another mystery.

And whilst Islam is the fastest growing religion, it's got a long way to catch up.
The reason Christianity is declining is because "Boomers" have left the church/abandoned their faith/died and left their children/grandchildren to decide for themselves. Most choose "no religion".

Try evidence based research, it helps.

The Muslim population in 2001 was 1.5m in 2021 it was 3.8m
According to the UK census

I’m not that bothered about Muslims influencing the UK because Muslim society is not liberal, freedom of speech in countries with any substantial Muslim population is limited, so the PC liberals in the UK will be disappointed.

Interesting to see the claim the Muslim religion has no historical connection with Britain or the British people. Can the poster have so little appreciation of British history? Maybe the person wanted us to review the historical facts, to refute her claims. Well done! We are probably more knowledgeable than before their provocative post! Ps earliest links between Muslims and British Isles has been proven to be 8th century (Cambridge press)

This might be helpful on the history of Muslims in Britain.

Though, IMO, it skates rather too lightly over the contribution of the British Empire and our takeover of their countries...

www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/history/uk_1.shtml

Yes look at our history
It’s also impossible to consider our history by excluding The Empire/ our colonial history.
Muslim soldiers fought in support of the UK and allies in WW1 and Ww2
Many of us have family members with connection to British Muslims. My family includes a 30 year old woman who grew up as a Muslim. She loves her family. They love her and her partner, a key member of our family. Like many of my Catholic friends 50 years ago, there’s a gentle avoidance of addressing the fact she no longer ‘believes’

Muslims have roots in Britain that go back centuries. 16th Century I believe. Hundreds of thousands for example fought for this country in the First World War.

Urmstongran

The Muslim religion has no historical connection with Britain or British people. So I cannot understand why we are expected to show it so much reverence, regard and respect. It is nothing to do with us. Yet it causes so much friction and trouble and even murder and mayhem in this country.

Yes, just go away all you non Celts, let’s become pagan again shall we? (Joke).

The Muslim religion has no historical connection with Britain or British people.

I think you need to study some British history, Ug

Urmstongran

The Muslim religion has no historical connection with Britain or British people. So I cannot understand why we are expected to show it so much reverence, regard and respect. It is nothing to do with us. Yet it causes so much friction and trouble and even murder and mayhem in this country.

🥱🥱🥱🥱🥱🥱🥱🥱🥱🥱🥱🥱🥱

The Muslim religion has no historical connection with Britain or British people. So I cannot understand why we are expected to show it so much reverence, regard and respect. It is nothing to do with us. Yet it causes so much friction and trouble and even murder and mayhem in this country.

Primrose53

Nope. Read my post again. I said his followers.

And we'll beg to differ on whether he's a top guy, or not.

Glorianny

GrannyGravy13

Glorianny

GrannyGravy13

growstuff

Thank you for the clarification GrannyGravy. It did seem a bit daft.

I imagine it’s because the Met are aware of the identity of so called agitators who turn up at protests with the one aim of disruption. (Whatever the protest/march is for)

They haven’t got the time or numbers to ask every protester to remove their face covering.

At the march in October 7 people were arrested 4 of them for refusing to remove a face mask
www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/palestine-supporters-march-london-against-israel-action-gaza-2023-10-14/
At an anti-fascist march a woman spent 2 nights in a police cell for refusing to remove her mask. She said she feared retribution from the fascist demonstrators. She was cleared of all charges at the magistrates court.

It isn’t clear from that article if they were arrested on suspicion of defacing the BBC building with red paint. Lots of people are arrested then acquitted?

I will repeat that it is not illegal to wear a face covering on a protest March.

From the article
^As the demonstration ended, police said seven arrests had been made, four of them for refusing to remove face masks.^

You really are splitting hairs to suit your narrative.

Four were arrested for refusing to remove face coverings, the article does not say why these four were singled out.

They were acquitted.

SeaWoozle

Joseann

Yes, isn't it all to do with live facial recognition cameras which pick distinguishing features? So like at passport control you are asked to remove hats, even glasses sometimes. I guess sophisticated police cameras are focused on a specific area and have a watch list of those who might cause harm. Any scarves or masks might inhibit that process and there would soon be an outcry if police didn't remove the offender pretty swiftly. Isn't it those who are thought to be trying to conceal their identity who will be asked to remove their face coverings?

Joseann

You might find this interesting 😊

www.met.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/fr/facial-recognition-technology/

Thanks SeaWoozle.

SeaWoozle

Cadenza123

I've been thinking about this issue over the last few days. I've no real opinion about Lee Anderson but I keep coming back to thinking that if he believes what he's saying, doesn't he have the right a voice? Shouldn't the challenge be along the lines of 'show your proof ' as opposed to shutting down any debate?

I agree, Cadenza

But free speech/freedom of speech comes with responsibility. It also comes with someone's right to reply.

The "problem" with people like Lee Anderson is the FACT that not only is he a politician, he's a star of social media and has a massive following. People believe him, even if what he says is untrue, if his facts are twisted or if even if he might just be telling the truth. The danger is that many followers of people like him, Yaxley Lennon, Calvin Robinson et al are ill-educated, feel let down/ostracised by the public and government and follow these people because they shout what they want to hear. Regardless of whether it's factual or not.

Calvin Robinson “ill educated”? He went to Uni, was a teacher, is an ordained Minister, is mixed race and a top guy! I don’t think he needs to “follow” anybody. He has his own ideas and opinions and makes them known.