Islamaphobia is getting out of control

GrannyGravy13

Glorianny

GrannyGravy13

growstuff

Thank you for the clarification GrannyGravy. It did seem a bit daft.

I imagine it’s because the Met are aware of the identity of so called agitators who turn up at protests with the one aim of disruption. (Whatever the protest/march is for)

They haven’t got the time or numbers to ask every protester to remove their face covering.

At the march in October 7 people were arrested 4 of them for refusing to remove a face mask
www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/palestine-supporters-march-london-against-israel-action-gaza-2023-10-14/
At an anti-fascist march a woman spent 2 nights in a police cell for refusing to remove her mask. She said she feared retribution from the fascist demonstrators. She was cleared of all charges at the magistrates court.

It isn’t clear from that article if they were arrested on suspicion of defacing the BBC building with red paint. Lots of people are arrested then acquitted?

I will repeat that it is not illegal to wear a face covering on a protest March.

From the article
As the demonstration ended, police said seven arrests had been made, four of them for refusing to remove face masks.

Joseann

Yes, isn't it all to do with live facial recognition cameras which pick distinguishing features? So like at passport control you are asked to remove hats, even glasses sometimes. I guess sophisticated police cameras are focused on a specific area and have a watch list of those who might cause harm. Any scarves or masks might inhibit that process and there would soon be an outcry if police didn't remove the offender pretty swiftly. Isn't it those who are thought to be trying to conceal their identity who will be asked to remove their face coverings?

Joseann

You might find this interesting 😊

www.met.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/fr/facial-recognition-technology/

Yes, isn't it all to do with live facial recognition cameras which pick distinguishing features? So like at passport control you are asked to remove hats, even glasses sometimes. I guess sophisticated police cameras are focused on a specific area and have a watch list of those who might cause harm. Any scarves or masks might inhibit that process and there would soon be an outcry if police didn't remove the offender pretty swiftly. Isn't it those who are thought to be trying to conceal their identity who will be asked to remove their face coverings?

Cadenza123

I've been thinking about this issue over the last few days. I've no real opinion about Lee Anderson but I keep coming back to thinking that if he believes what he's saying, doesn't he have the right a voice? Shouldn't the challenge be along the lines of 'show your proof ' as opposed to shutting down any debate?

I agree, Cadenza

But free speech/freedom of speech comes with responsibility. It also comes with someone's right to reply.

The "problem" with people like Lee Anderson is the FACT that not only is he a politician, he's a star of social media and has a massive following. People believe him, even if what he says is untrue, if his facts are twisted or if even if he might just be telling the truth. The danger is that many followers of people like him, Yaxley Lennon, Calvin Robinson et al are ill-educated, feel let down/ostracised by the public and government and follow these people because they shout what they want to hear. Regardless of whether it's factual or not.

Glorianny

GrannyGravy13

growstuff

Thank you for the clarification GrannyGravy. It did seem a bit daft.

I imagine it’s because the Met are aware of the identity of so called agitators who turn up at protests with the one aim of disruption. (Whatever the protest/march is for)

They haven’t got the time or numbers to ask every protester to remove their face covering.

At the march in October 7 people were arrested 4 of them for refusing to remove a face mask
www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/palestine-supporters-march-london-against-israel-action-gaza-2023-10-14/
At an anti-fascist march a woman spent 2 nights in a police cell for refusing to remove her mask. She said she feared retribution from the fascist demonstrators. She was cleared of all charges at the magistrates court.

It isn’t clear from that article if they were arrested on suspicion of defacing the BBC building with red paint. Lots of people are arrested then acquitted?

I will repeat that it is not illegal to wear a face covering on a protest March.

GrannyGravy13

growstuff

Thank you for the clarification GrannyGravy. It did seem a bit daft.

I imagine it’s because the Met are aware of the identity of so called agitators who turn up at protests with the one aim of disruption. (Whatever the protest/march is for)

They haven’t got the time or numbers to ask every protester to remove their face covering.

At the march in October 7 people were arrested 4 of them for refusing to remove a face mask
www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/palestine-supporters-march-london-against-israel-action-gaza-2023-10-14/
At an anti-fascist march a woman spent 2 nights in a police cell for refusing to remove her mask. She said she feared retribution from the fascist demonstrators. She was cleared of all charges at the magistrates court.

growstuff

Thank you for the clarification GrannyGravy. It did seem a bit daft.

I imagine it’s because the Met are aware of the identity of so called agitators who turn up at protests with the one aim of disruption. (Whatever the protest/march is for)

They haven’t got the time or numbers to ask every protester to remove their face covering.

I've been thinking about this issue over the last few days. I've no real opinion about Lee Anderson but I keep coming back to thinking that if he believes what he's saying, doesn't he have the right a voice? Shouldn't the challenge be along the lines of 'show your proof ' as opposed to shutting down any debate?

Islamic fundamentalists opposed to British values have become experts in gaming a broken system.

‘Islamic fundamentalists have become masters at invoking liberal values like tolerance, liberty and human rights in order to destroy them’

They have exploited the flawed liberal multiculturalist social model to create ghettos where sex-segregated restaurants, and madrassas that teach their students that dancing is inspired by the devil, are the daily reality. They have exploited the liberal policy of “community outreach” via a select number of unelected elders to amass control of local “ethnic” voting blocs and silence rival moderates.

They have become masters at invoking liberal values like tolerance, liberty and human rights in order to destroy them. This can be seen when it comes to the strategy of branding all criticism of Islamism as Islamophobic.

Full circle- here we were prosecuted for not wearing a mask a few years ago - now it’s the opposite for your mob.

growstuff

Callistemon21

growstuff

Urmstongran

Islam is not a race. It is not racist to criticise a religion.

There is only one race - the human race.

"Racist" has a specific meaning which covers hatred of people belonging to a religious or national group. Presumably you don't think anti-semitism is racist. By that reasoning, you obviously think that doesn't exist either.

That has already been discussed and biologically yes, but sociologically there are different races.

If there is only one race there would be no need for Race Relations Acts and ergo no-one could claim to be the victim of racial discrimination.

From a scientific point of view, there really is only one race. It is impossible to divide the human race into separate races because there is a huge overlap in haploid groups, although it was tried in the eighteenth, nineteenth and early twentieth centuries.

Racist and racism are modern concepts, which have generally been accepted, to describe discrimination based on (usually) physical characteristics. There's a good explanation in Adam Rutherford's "How to argue with a racist".

In any case, that's a red herring. Discrimination does exist. Anti-semitism exists, as does Islamophobia (whatever anybody chooses to call it). Ironically, Palestinians are closer genetically to Jews whose ancestry is in the middle East and round the Mediterranean than those same Jews are to Jews who have immigrated to Israel from Eastern Europe. Evidence suggests they have relatively recent (in terms of human development) common ancestry.

Yes, I know.
I said that race is a social concept and you now agree the human race point was a red herring.

Anniebach

Glorianny
I wondered about this. I regularly see people on public transport wearing masks, apparently they couldn't join a march unless they were willing to put their health at risk

Who does one ask for permission to join a march ?

What has permission to do with.it?
If you need to wear a mask for health reasons you cannot go on a march because you will be asked to remove it, and if you are, and refuse you may be arrested. So do you risk your health?

Thank you for the clarification GrannyGravy. It did seem a bit daft.

Glorianny

There is apparently a growth in small Christian churches ccx.org.uk/content/church-is-growing-church-of-england/#:~:text=Research%20shows%20that%20smaller%20churches,

Serious question, though.

I stand by my above post.

BUT

Surely, ANY branching off of ANY religion/faith can lead to insular and radical teachings? Where do "we" draw the line? Members of my own family have their own church. They have a great community, it's well lead and they have helped many, many people through healing, faith and community.

But when it comes to people like Calvin Robinson, who in my opinion plays a dangerous game with Christianity, should people like him be monitored for what they preach? He has a huge following on GB news and Twitter. I've read some of his stuff and it's terrifying. It's easy to see how anyone can be radicalised and encouraged to go down the wrong path.

Glorianny

growstuff

Freya5

growstuff

Urmstongran

Mask wearers can now be arrested by the Police at a demo.
Good. It’s a start.

And if I just want to protect myself from Covid in a crowd?

That neeeds to cover your nose and mouth, not your whole face, there in lies the crux of the matter, yes. Only cowards without the conviction of their views hide their faces.

But the photo which was posted showed people with masks which only covered the mouth and nose. They are useless as a disguise.

I wondered about this. I regularly see people on public transport wearing masks, apparently they couldn't join a march unless they were willing to put their health at risk

Untrue, the new legislation is that if you are on a protest march and asked to remove your face covering by a police officer you could could arrest, imprisonment and a fine of up to £1,000.

No where does it say that you cannot wear a mask on a protest.

Glorianny
I wondered about this. I regularly see people on public transport wearing masks, apparently they couldn't join a march unless they were willing to put their health at risk

Who does one ask for permission to join a march ?

Glorianny

There is apparently a growth in small Christian churches ccx.org.uk/content/church-is-growing-church-of-england/#:~:text=Research%20shows%20that%20smaller%20churches,

Like that of Cosplay Calvin?

No thanks.

You know he was kicked out of the CoE for being to radical, right?!

I agree Grantanow. Comparative Religion is well taught in some schools. Unfortunately, parents can elect to have their children excluded

There is apparently a growth in small Christian churches ccx.org.uk/content/church-is-growing-church-of-england/#:~:text=Research%20shows%20that%20smaller%20churches,

Better education would give people the tools to criticise religions.

growstuff

Freya5

growstuff

Urmstongran

Mask wearers can now be arrested by the Police at a demo.
Good. It’s a start.

And if I just want to protect myself from Covid in a crowd?

That neeeds to cover your nose and mouth, not your whole face, there in lies the crux of the matter, yes. Only cowards without the conviction of their views hide their faces.

But the photo which was posted showed people with masks which only covered the mouth and nose. They are useless as a disguise.

I wondered about this. I regularly see people on public transport wearing masks, apparently they couldn't join a march unless they were willing to put their health at risk

My apologies Katie59

Hatie59 Your argument is very familiar. In my youth it was used by people of the Irish catholic population.

We all put loyalty to the Pope ahead of loyalty to the Crown (despite Irish people being disproportionately present in our armed forces over hndreds of years) and the catholic church's opposition to contraception was to enable it to outbreed the opposition by having large families.

Well, look at things now, allegiance to the catholic church has fallen in line with all other christian religions and catholic families, on average, have no more children than anyone else.

Over 2 generations we will find that the muslim population of the UK will be veering to the norm, smaller families and an adherence to more liberal religious norms and, indeed, many muslims, like Jewish and Irish immigrants before them no longer practicing the religion that had previously been seen as indivisible from their ethnicity.

Katie59

This is exactly the response I was expecting condemning me for even broaching the subject.

The facts are that Islam has expanded in the UK, those identifying has doubled in the last 20yrs due to birth rate and migration, if it continues in 2 generations - 60 yrs, it will be the majority religion.
I’m happy to tolerate other beliefs, but the evidence from other nations is that Muslims do not tolerate other religions willingly and governments have to maintain large army’s to control the population

Religion percentages in England (2021 census)

Christianity (46.3%)
No religion (36.7%)
Islam (6.7%)
Hinduism (1.8%)
Sikhism (0.9%)
Buddhism (0.5%)
Judaism (0.5%)
Other faiths (0.6%)
Not stated (6.0%)

Source. Wikipedia & 2021 census

And whilst Islam is the fastest growing religion, it's got a long way to catch up.
The reason Christianity is declining is because "Boomers" have left the church/abandoned their faith/died and left their children/grandchildren to decide for themselves. Most choose "no religion".

Try evidence based research, it helps.

Freya5

growstuff

Urmstongran

Mask wearers can now be arrested by the Police at a demo.
Good. It’s a start.

And if I just want to protect myself from Covid in a crowd?

That neeeds to cover your nose and mouth, not your whole face, there in lies the crux of the matter, yes. Only cowards without the conviction of their views hide their faces.

But the photo which was posted showed people with masks which only covered the mouth and nose. They are useless as a disguise.