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Islamaphobia is getting out of control

(764 Posts)
Whitewavemark2 Sat 24-Feb-24 07:13:37

We have Braverman and Anderson stirring up the most awful Islamaphobia.

I don’t think that we have ever had British MPs saying such racist and hateful rhetoric since Mosely. They are being backed by the worst sort of editorship. It is so redolent of the 20s and 30s.

Jewish and Christian leaders are calling for it to stop, as well as Tories who see this as a disaster for their party, as it will never ever end well.

Rory Stewart

This idea that “London is in the grip of Islamists” is deluded and it’s awful - an obsession that thrives among a bizarre and dangerous coalition. No conservative MP should ever be spouting this stuff.

MaizieD Tue 27-Feb-24 09:53:37

Germanshepherdsmum

Katie59

This is exactly the response I was expecting condemning me for even broaching the subject.

The facts are that Islam has expanded in the UK, those identifying has doubled in the last 20yrs due to birth rate and migration, if it continues in 2 generations - 60 yrs, it will be the majority religion.
I’m happy to tolerate other beliefs, but the evidence from other nations is that Muslims do not tolerate other religions willingly and governments have to maintain large army’s to control the population

I agree. I find it a frightening prospect.

QED Galaxy

Germanshepherdsmum Tue 27-Feb-24 09:46:41

Katie59

This is exactly the response I was expecting condemning me for even broaching the subject.

The facts are that Islam has expanded in the UK, those identifying has doubled in the last 20yrs due to birth rate and migration, if it continues in 2 generations - 60 yrs, it will be the majority religion.
I’m happy to tolerate other beliefs, but the evidence from other nations is that Muslims do not tolerate other religions willingly and governments have to maintain large army’s to control the population

I agree. I find it a frightening prospect.

MaizieD Tue 27-Feb-24 09:44:24

Galaxy

Why wouldnt they though? I imagine if you are unable to believe much of the information provided by the likes of the BBC, told you are stupid for the way you vote or the paper you read, all sorts of odd things might look appealing.

I think a lot of people can believe 'odd things' without being told any of those things you cite, Galaxy.

Katie59 Tue 27-Feb-24 09:35:30

This is exactly the response I was expecting condemning me for even broaching the subject.

The facts are that Islam has expanded in the UK, those identifying has doubled in the last 20yrs due to birth rate and migration, if it continues in 2 generations - 60 yrs, it will be the majority religion.
I’m happy to tolerate other beliefs, but the evidence from other nations is that Muslims do not tolerate other religions willingly and governments have to maintain large army’s to control the population

Iam64 Tue 27-Feb-24 09:18:28

Oh the irony

Freya5 Tue 27-Feb-24 09:18:20

growstuff

Freya5

Callistemon21

I don't care what religion they are, they disrupt.

Go and shout at Speaker's Corner.

Not if you are of the Christian faith you can't. Arrested for carrying a Bible, singing hymns. Always double standards. Hatun Tash comes to mind.

Only if you happen to be in an exclusion zone near an abortion clinic.

Conveniently not what I was talking about. Typical.

Freya5 Tue 27-Feb-24 09:08:41

Chocolatelovinggran

I carry and read a Bible and sing hymns and have never been arrested for these activities ( although my singing might incite violence amongst those with delicate ears) . Does it happen a lot where you live Freya?

Oh of course you do. Don't you read the newspapers, or do you only see what you want to.

Freya5 Tue 27-Feb-24 08:56:48

growstuff

Urmstongran

Mask wearers can now be arrested by the Police at a demo.
Good. It’s a start.

And if I just want to protect myself from Covid in a crowd?

That neeeds to cover your nose and mouth, not your whole face, there in lies the crux of the matter, yes. Only cowards without the conviction of their views hide their faces.

Iam64 Tue 27-Feb-24 08:27:45

Katie59

It is a fact that Islam is expanding worldwide sometimes by violence, followers believe that theirs is the only true religion and they don’t tolerate criticism.

I can say whatever I want about Christianity nobody is going to say boo, any negative comment about Islam or Muslims is forbidden.

I havn’t ordered my prayer mat yet, but the time will come.

. It’s simply untrue to say that Muslims don’t tolerate criticism. Do you know any people who follow the Muslim faith?
Who forbids criticism of Islam but allows criticism of Christianity
I live in a diverse town in the north west. I just don’t recognise your comments as being representative

As for your opinion throw away comment suggesting you’ ll be forced into ordering a prayer mat - worthy of Lee Anderson

Whitewavemark2 Tue 27-Feb-24 08:24:13

It is certainly true that Islam is the fastest growing religion, but this growth is centred almost entirely in Africa and the eastern part of Asia where the population is growing the fastest.

Joseann Tue 27-Feb-24 08:10:21

Tolerance is definitely the word Katie59. But it has to work for ALL.

Katie59 Tue 27-Feb-24 07:54:05

It is a fact that Islam is expanding worldwide sometimes by violence, followers believe that theirs is the only true religion and they don’t tolerate criticism.

I can say whatever I want about Christianity nobody is going to say boo, any negative comment about Islam or Muslims is forbidden.

I havn’t ordered my prayer mat yet, but the time will come.

Whitewavemark2 Tue 27-Feb-24 07:49:16

A good education should enable us to use the tools to look critically at the world and the information we constantly receive.

So as we constantly sort this information we are able to build on our knowledge, but the only reliable way to know what we are reading and seeing is true is with evidence. Without substantiated evidence what we assimilate is only based on argument.

This argument may or may not be rational. Therein lies the rub.

Galaxy Tue 27-Feb-24 07:36:47

I am not sure 'this thing that people are claiming to happen has never happened to me' is that helpful. All sorts of things havent happened to me. I believe they exist though.

Chocolatelovinggran Tue 27-Feb-24 07:35:02

I carry and read a Bible and sing hymns and have never been arrested for these activities ( although my singing might incite violence amongst those with delicate ears) . Does it happen a lot where you live Freya?

Galaxy Tue 27-Feb-24 06:55:24

That's the problem. People end up in echo chambers or dangerous places but I cant really say that its their fault. Someone has just quoted Biden on another thread, am I supposed to see that as a source of wisdom? Or take it in any way seriously. I am not having a go at that poster it's just there is a limit to the nonsense people will swallow.

growstuff Tue 27-Feb-24 06:51:02

Galaxy

Why wouldnt they though? I imagine if you are unable to believe much of the information provided by the likes of the BBC, told you are stupid for the way you vote or the paper you read, all sorts of odd things might look appealing.

So where would you find believable information?

Galaxy Tue 27-Feb-24 06:13:22

Why wouldnt they though? I imagine if you are unable to believe much of the information provided by the likes of the BBC, told you are stupid for the way you vote or the paper you read, all sorts of odd things might look appealing.

Doodledog Mon 26-Feb-24 23:56:01

We really are going to Hell in a handcart.

I've just watched Peston, on which Jon Ronson was a guest talking about conspiracy theories, and it was mentioned that something like 30% of people believe in the Great Replacement Theory (ie that white people are deliberately being replaced by people of other colours). I think that may have been in the US, but all the same. 30%. It's insane.

growstuff Mon 26-Feb-24 23:48:32

Callistemon21

growstuff

Urmstongran

Islam is not a race. It is not racist to criticise a religion.

There is only one race - the human race.

"Racist" has a specific meaning which covers hatred of people belonging to a religious or national group. Presumably you don't think anti-semitism is racist. By that reasoning, you obviously think that doesn't exist either.

That has already been discussed and biologically yes, but sociologically there are different races.

If there is only one race there would be no need for Race Relations Acts and ergo no-one could claim to be the victim of racial discrimination.

From a scientific point of view, there really is only one race. It is impossible to divide the human race into separate races because there is a huge overlap in haploid groups, although it was tried in the eighteenth, nineteenth and early twentieth centuries.

Racist and racism are modern concepts, which have generally been accepted, to describe discrimination based on (usually) physical characteristics. There's a good explanation in Adam Rutherford's "How to argue with a racist".

In any case, that's a red herring. Discrimination does exist. Anti-semitism exists, as does Islamophobia (whatever anybody chooses to call it). Ironically, Palestinians are closer genetically to Jews whose ancestry is in the middle East and round the Mediterranean than those same Jews are to Jews who have immigrated to Israel from Eastern Europe. Evidence suggests they have relatively recent (in terms of human development) common ancestry.

growstuff Mon 26-Feb-24 23:31:22

Callistemon21

growstuff

Urmstongran

Mask wearers can now be arrested by the Police at a demo.
Good. It’s a start.

And if I just want to protect myself from Covid in a crowd?

There are still some people wearing those in shops; I did wonder if I should.

I still haven't had Covid, so I haven't a clue how immune I am. I don't wear a mask outdoors, but I still have one with me and wear it in some places like crowded trains.

Callistemon21 Mon 26-Feb-24 23:20:03

growstuff

Urmstongran

Mask wearers can now be arrested by the Police at a demo.
Good. It’s a start.

And if I just want to protect myself from Covid in a crowd?

There are still some people wearing those in shops; I did wonder if I should.

Callistemon21 Mon 26-Feb-24 23:16:32

Galaxy

Is that the meaning in the equality act? I think those characteristics are seperate in that legislation

Types of discrimination ('protected characteristics')
It is against the law to discriminate against anyone because of:

age
gender reassignment
being married or in a civil partnership
being pregnant or on maternity leave
disability
race including colour, nationality, ethnic or national origin
religion or belief
sex
sexual orientation

Yes, race and religion are separate.

Callistemon21 Mon 26-Feb-24 23:15:02

The law recognises five types of hate crime on the basis of:

Race
Religion
Disability
Sexual orientation
Transgender identity

Callistemon21 Mon 26-Feb-24 23:09:18

growstuff

Urmstongran

Islam is not a race. It is not racist to criticise a religion.

There is only one race - the human race.

"Racist" has a specific meaning which covers hatred of people belonging to a religious or national group. Presumably you don't think anti-semitism is racist. By that reasoning, you obviously think that doesn't exist either.

That has already been discussed and biologically yes, but sociologically there are different races.

If there is only one race there would be no need for Race Relations Acts and ergo no-one could claim to be the victim of racial discrimination.