Bring Shamima Begum Home!

Were we not 15 years old ourselves once; did we not make the wrong choices? She was obviously groomed and is in need of support and another chance.

She made her bed now she needs to lie in it ...

At the very least the children living in these camps should be allowed to return to their 'home' countries - they are innocents and deserve a chance for a civilised safe life. I am not commenting on Shamima Begum and know she has no living children, but we should surely open our minds to allowing the mothers of children in these camps being allowed home together with their children. Where the mothers have not committed heinous crimes, they should readily be allowed to accompany their children to their home countries. Children need parents and security.

I can’t detail but I can claim extensive knowledge. I’ll stop there

Iam64 speaks from personal experience Sago.

A PCC will have reports from his own officers but not direct experience.

Iam64

I can’t comment on his views. I don’t defend the way the children and their families were abandoned. I only speak of my direct experience

This is not someone’s view, these are the findings of the PCC!

But whatever our personal opinions -and I know what mine are - the judgement of the Court of Appeal should be the end of it.

Yes, agreed.

toscalily

There does seem to be continued confusion here, to clarify, Shamima Begum was born in the UK to Bangladeshi parents had British citizenship, she was also entitled to claim Bangladeshi citizenship up to the age of 21 but did not do so. At the time her UK citizenship was taken away she was 19 and still had the opportunity to put in that claim although the Bangladeshi government said they did not want her. Who knows what would have happened and where she would be if she had put in her claim?

I think there's a misunderstanding here.

To clarify:
Begum had dual nationality; British through being born here and Bangladeshi through her mother, automatically. Her Bangladeshi nationality had to be renewed by application by the age of 21 which she did not do.
Bangladesh officials have said they would not now grant her nationality. If she was returned there they say she would face the death penalty.

I can’t comment on his views. I don’t defend the way the children and their families were abandoned. I only speak of my direct experience

Iam64 This is for you.

Sago, I have first hand knowledge of grooming gangs in northern former mill towns, like the ones in Rochdale. I never heard a police officer or a social worker call the girls prostitutes. There were disagreements in all agencies on how interventions could be meaningful. I had one strong disagreement when I was told a 13 year old was ‘making bad choices’. It needed specialist multi agency teams, dedicated to these investigations. It needed its own budget.
We continue to need the abuse of children and women to be given greater priority

Those stating she was a "child" when she left should remember that she said the Manchester bombing was justified - she was 21 then. It should also be remembered that the organisation she joined has urged its members to return to their home countries and continue the fight there!

As I said in an earlier post she will become the “ poster girl “ for Islamists
Tension is greater in the UK due to the Palestinian conflict, it would be a bad move
Hear hear.
Breaking my self imposed Lenten digital “fast” just to say there are some short memories on this (and other threads)
Remember the videos of hostages and prisoners having their throats cut? She publicly said this was entirely justifiable and indeed justified.
The poor girls who were trafficked and exploited in Rochdale and elsewhere were not in her league at all.
Begum was not only responsible for her own actions but taking others with her.
The least of Begum’s crimes was recruiting more girls, the worst of her crimes we will probably never know
But whatever our personal opinions -and I know what mine are - the judgement of the Court of Appeal should be the end of it.

Hard to believe anyone would want a terrorist back in the UK. Haven't they seen the death and destruction they caused here.
Begum was an intelligent resourceful 15 year old. She is now an intelligent and dangerous woman who the security services know will work against us if she is allowed to return.

Monica

When it came to the attention of the authorities that these young girls in Rochdale, Rotherham,Telford etc etc, were being groomed, social workers and police had referred to these innocent girls as prostitutes and drug addicts.
It was because of this reputation that it took so long for a proper investigation.

They were not prostitutes or addicts, your analogy is poor.

The least of Begum’s crimes was recruiting more girls, the worst of her crimes we will probably never know.

She is a terrorist.

We have enough unknown ones in the country without letting more in.

As I said in an earlier post she will become the “ poster girl “ for Islamists.
Tension is greater in the UK due to the Palestinian conflict, it would be a bad move.

Monica , I do understand your compassion for SB and if I allow myself to soften I would be ' with you'
However I do believe the risk is too great. I am sure the security services know far more than we will ever discover. Sadly she is a very damaged woman and it is very commendable to believe she can be rehabilitated - but I wouldn't hold my breath!

You really do think you know better than the security services don’t you, MOnica? You are an apologist for this evil woman.

Why 2 threads on this woman? For the Home Secretary to have revoked her British citizenship in the first place and for courts to keep upholding that action, there is something the general public is not aware of. Therefore a lot of the comments on here are supposition. The recent unanimous decision should be the final say. Stop spending taxpayers money on it.

shelflife I made the comparison with Rochdale because she was much the same age as those unfortunate girls when she was groomed and led astray in just that way.

Let me continue the analogy. Let us imagine that there had not(finally) been a police investigation. that many of these girls grew into women. still enmeshed in these abusive frameworks, or if free them unhelped and falling into making their living by prostitution, or with drug addictions, possiblly having children as results of these relationships and repeating the cycle of abuse.

Would you say of all these women, Yes, I know they were lured into this abusive network, but they made no attempt to get out, they didn't pull themselves out of it, they just continued on to be prostitutes and drug addicts, why should we help them now, or would you refer back to what dragged them into prostitution and drug addiction and consider them especially in need of help?

Shamima Begum was 15 when she left the UK. She has had to manage as best she could since in a situation where she could not escape, where she is probably mentally traumatised . All her behaviour follows all the expected behaviours of adults who have experienced extreme trauma as a child and suffering from disassociation.

We should treat her and judge her for what she did at 15. Not what she has done since, since she has yet to be anywhwre where her views an ipinions have to be tailored to ensure her continued existance.

My sincere apologies Opal .

Shelflife

Opal, how on earth can you compare SB with the girls in Rochdale!? What planet are you on ?
I fully invited the emotions you have regarding a vulnerable 15 year old who was brainwashed into joining a terrorist organization. However.........
we live in a very dangerous world and SB is no longer that 15 year old. She has witnessed and no doubt been instrumental in many atrocities. The powers that be have their reasons for refusing to have her back in the UK. The idea that she can be rehabilitated is at best naive and at worst dangerous.

Whoa Shelflife - I didn't compare them, I was quoting that from another post. If you read the thread, you will see that I don't think she should be allowed back.

Other countries have similar rules dependent on parentage and where one is born. If you have a mixed heritage you have choices to make for yourself and/ or your children and surely the responsibility to be aware of the rules and regulations pertaining to your situation.

There does seem to be continued confusion here, to clarify, Shamima Begum was born in the UK to Bangladeshi parents had British citizenship, she was also entitled to claim Bangladeshi citizenship up to the age of 21 but did not do so. At the time her UK citizenship was taken away she was 19 and still had the opportunity to put in that claim although the Bangladeshi government said they did not want her. Who knows what would have happened and where she would be if she had put in her claim?

Correct maddy”

maddyone

Is it because she already had Bangladeshi citizenship on account of her parents being Bangladeshi?
Whatever, the UK did not grant her Bangladeshi citizenship.

Yes, through her mother, or so it was reported.