Scarlet Blake

I have been told frequently on GN that trans have been around for years. I have no reason to disbelieve that, or to care whether it’s true or not.
Transwomen choosing to live a lie is only important to me when it damages the lives and reputations of females; in this instance if his crime is recorded as being committed by a female instead of recording the truth, either that the crime was committed by a man or at least, by a trans woman.
I fail to understand why anyone wishing to identify as a specific group would choose to impact negatively on the group to which they aspire to belong. Yet ALL the TW who hit the headlines do exactly that.

No grey areas Monica, regardless of surgery, treatments and medication, nothing can change the biological sex you are born with, you can think you are a man or woman but that's a gender construct.

Curtaintwitcher You are conflating two entirely different issues, those of sex and those of gender

1) Some people are transgender. Their minds and behaviour are other than that of the sex of the body they are born into. Therefore they choose to live as their mind takes them. Some of transgender people take drugs and undergo surgery in an effort to mke their bodies match ther mind. I think most of us are entirely accepting of this. It has been going on for centuries. Women dressing and presenting as men have always had an acceptance that men dressed as women have never had. Ove my life time I have known several.

2) the sex we are born with is unchangeable. This means that when transgender people are in situations where care of the body or the care of the bodies of people around them are dominant, then mey need to be treated by physical sex rather than gender.

There will always be a grey area, especially for transgender women who have had their male genitalia removed and reconstructed as female genitalia and who take drugs to enhance their female characteristics. These need to be treated on a case by case basis.

But as for ^ transgender nonsense are vindicated.^ You are talking nonsense.

At last...those who have stood up against this transgender nonsense are vindicated. A man can live as a woman but can never be classed as a woman.

They havent avoided controversy, they have appeased a tiny vocal minority, the rest of the population think they are idiots. Complete disconnect between the majority of people and its institutions. That's not going to end well . The figures for newspapers readership and to a considerable extent the BBC tell that story. But on they go. Bless them.

Iam64

Dickens , you raise the Big Issue for me. Transgender woman, transgender man. Straightforward clear unambiguous ?

I believe it is.

And I do not understand why that description cannot be deemed 'inclusive'.

It seems to me that avoiding the word "trans" when referring to a trans woman (or man) is the very antithesis of inclusivity.

It begs the question, what is wrong in being transgender? Why does that status have to be hidden by pretending that a man with male genitalia is a woman? And if it made them comfortable to be called "Miss" instead of "Mr" (or the other way round) I'd personally be happy to go along with it, providing there was a recognition that "Miss" was a courtesy title.

It's the pretence that irks.

Galaxy

They dont have to respect that choice, they are making a decision to do that.

Mis-gendering someone is not a crime, nor is it a hate-crime unless it's combined with another crime which could indicate that the individual is motived by hatred of transgender people - I know all that.

However, the media, the Police, and other organisations and companies have bought into this culture which they call "inclusivity".

Any news outlet that chose to refer to Blake as "he" / a "man" in an ongoing court case would more than likely face a backlash from the usual sources. Notwithstanding the fact he, Blake, has been convicted of murder, there would be those who would quite likely complain to Ofcom. Papers want to avoid controversy because it can effect sales - if advertisers get jittery, they might withdraw from using said media and so their revenue would plummet.

So, in that light, they are compelled to abide by the current culture / thinking on transgender matters.

That is what I was getting at.

Cossy

Surely the point here are the crimes this person committed, not what they identify as, one doesn’t have to have physically “transitioned” to be able to call themself male or female.

Too much is being made of this persons gender, they committed appalling crimes and should be punished accordingly. I don’t care if they go to a male or female prison, just that they are locked away for a very very long time.

We can denigrate transgenders all we like, but I hope this awful case doesn’t result in even more discrimination towards transgender people and the LQBT+ community.

I understand what you are saying Cossy but you are rather missing a point. The argument hinges on whether transwomen who still have male genitalia should be put in a women's prison.

If they have male genitalia they are capable of rape. They will also possess the strength of a man, which is almost invariably greater than that of a women.

Given that this person has been imprisoned for heinous and breathtakingly violent crimes, do you it think it wise to put him amongst a physically weaker demographic and one which he could use his penis to rape?

If you were in a women's institution, would you want to be sharing it with a violent man?

They dont have to respect that choice, they are making a decision to do that.

Iam64

I’ve just seen a comment in response to JKR that says she killed a cat and you go transphobic, take a day off JKR
What is it that the cat killing bothers ‘some people’ more than murder

What is it that the cat killing bothers ‘some people’ more than murder

I don't think that people believe killing a cat is more devastating than killing a human being - rather that it is the gruesome appalling way he tortured it prior to putting it in a blender. Admittedly, I didn't read the full description of what took place - I just saw the bit about the blender and my stomach heaved... that anyone can subject any sentient being to such barbaric cruelty is to me so shocking and depressing that my squeamishness will not allow me to delve into it.

And months later looked around for someone to murder.

Thank God we can now forensically use DNA. The empty vodka bottle which was used to hit the poor man with had Blake's DNA on it when it was found in the river. There had been suggestions that the victim might have taken his own life.

This individual is another in the all too long history of warped killers - those who have a 'taste' for killing. The gender matter is only relevant because the media are compelled to report the crime as one committed by a woman. It grates, but they (the media) have no choice. I don't know Blake's background but the fact he identifies as a woman means that the media must respect that choice and refer to this vile being as "she".

I'm not given to bursts of outrageous indignation but every time I read "she" or that this "woman" has been convicted, etc, I do feel indignation. Blake is a man who identified as a woman, to what extent I've no idea and to me it matters not. The crime was committed by a man, his billions of cells are proof of that. And the crime should not be recorded as one committed by a woman.

I know, it’s as if the young murdered nan’s life is just indispensable.

I’ve just seen a comment in response to JKR that says she killed a cat and you go transphobic, take a day off JKR
What is it that the cat killing bothers ‘some people’ more than murder

Urmstongran

Give JK a knighthood.
And Sharron Davies a damehood.
These brave women fighting for the rights of women & girls!
And being threatened non stop.

Bravo!

Totally agree the Metro (free newspaper) tweeted against J K Rowling’s stance on this, realised they had picked the wrong team and deleted it. Fortunately it had been screenshotted by many and retweeted (X’d)

Yes agree urmston

JKR*

Give JK a knighthood.
And Sharron Davies a damehood.
These brave women fighting for the rights of women & girls!
And being threatened non stop.

Bravo!

I wonder if we could influence the policy makers? We’d have to claim victim status I fear and likely be dismissed as terfs

Iam64

Dickens , you raise the Big Issue for me. Transgender woman, transgender man. Straightforward clear unambiguous ?

I know it’s too late, but
Trans man-a man who identifies as a woman
Transwoman- a woman who now identifies as a man.
Much more sensible to have the original sex named rather than the current rather deceitful implication.

"Trans people affirm that they are 'proud' (TRANS PRIDE etc) to be transgender - so be it" yes Dickens why say they're something they're not .

Not only is that clearer and less confusing Bridie it's also true.

Dickens , you raise the Big Issue for me. Transgender woman, transgender man. Straightforward clear unambiguous ?

Would it not be more honest to use the term " male, but identifies as a female" or " female, but identifies as a male"... its much clearer and less confusing.

BlueBelle

AmberSpyglass
I find Scarlett Blake’s crimes loathsome. But I believe trans women are women, and her crimes don’t detract from that

If he’s got his bits he’s a man has he got a womb ?
He’s a man

Even if Blake hasn't got them ("bits") and has a surgically constructed womb, his sex is fixed in every cell in his body, billions of them and no-one has yet (and probably never will) found a way to alter that.

Looking at the whole question of 'transgenderism' - why on earth is it not acceptable to be recognised as a transgender woman (or transgender man)? It's not a crime to be transgender, there is nothing intrinsically wrong in identifying with the opposite sex (or none). Trans people affirm that they are 'proud' (TRANS PRIDE etc) to be transgender - so be it.

What an excellent idea HowVeryDareYou. I’m identifying as a 38 year old, still fit enough to run, ride horses, cycle, work full time whilst somehow being a good enough mum/wife/friend.

Callistemon21

Blake also identifies as a cat occasionally.

Madness! I might start identifying as a tall, slim, 25 year old then

Transwomen cannot be a biological woman, call yourself what you like, but those are the facts.