Church compensation is not enough, apparently!

Jaberwok

Exactly! The slave trade had layers of people involved, not least of all, Africans themselves. No white person would ever have travelled into the inner parts of the African Continent to round up.slaves. African chiefs did that and had them brought down to the coast to sell to Europeans, the Portuguese being one of the main protagonists. Yes missionaries did venture into the dark continent, but often did not return. How about the C of E demanding reparation from those African countries whose participation made the slave trade possible and viable? Perhaps the C of E should turn its attention to modern slavery which is just as awful as it ever was and would be effective, instead of spending a billion pounds on something that, awful as it was, cannot be altered for the poor souls that suffered.

The slaves were transported to the coast by Muslim traders, who had bought them from the tribal chiefs, the chiefs sold their own people as well as raiding other tribes. Many hotheads within the tribe disappeared in this way in much the same way that we sent law breakers to Australia.

Exactly! The slave trade had layers of people involved, not least of all, Africans themselves. No white person would ever have travelled into the inner parts of the African Continent to round up.slaves. African chiefs did that and had them brought down to the coast to sell to Europeans, the Portuguese being one of the main protagonists. Yes missionaries did venture into the dark continent, but often did not return. How about the C of E demanding reparation from those African countries whose participation made the slave trade possible and viable? Perhaps the C of E should turn its attention to modern slavery which is just as awful as it ever was and would be effective, instead of spending a billion pounds on something that, awful as it was, cannot be altered for the poor souls that suffered.

The church was just part of the “establishment” and benefitted from the philanthropy of the elite a great many churches were built or expanded since the 17th century.
We visited an NT property last year where it was built directly from the profits of enslavement, sure enough there was a lavish chapel alongside where the house where the owners could thank god for their “good fortune”

If you think the descendants of those families are sorry that their wealth originates from slavery, they’re not, they just say it was a long time ago.

Shouldn't the CofE be asking for contribution to it's slavery programme from the north African countries which hosted Barbary pirates and the Arab and African countries whose elites and traders sold people into slavery?

Not that many estates left that are under original family control, and who says that they will contribute to this enormous reparation? Perhaps after all these years they will will balk at being preached to and made to feel guilty by something that was not of their personal making? If the C of E is so wealthy, it could make a start on church repairs, paying clergy properly, reviewing pensions? housing for clergy needing an update, turn its attention to modern day slavery? Archbishop Welby needs to give his head a wobble, then he might begin to realise why church attendance in the Anglican Church is at an all time low and getting worse.

GG13, i agree it’s probably time to move on. That needs to include teaching our history honestly and encouraging debate that reflects society as it was and is currently
My ancestors worked in the dark satanic mills, including a 6 year old boy. Their lives were hard but they weren’t enslaved

I totally understand how awful the years of slave trade were. I also acknowledge the U.K.’s part in it.

I personally feel it’s time to draw a line under it and move forward. Governments, Church authorities and organisations should be looking to prevent and rescue the modern day slaves, they are living in terrible circumstances and fearful for their lives…

I’m sure a lot of plantations ended up indebted to a Bank but that bank had shareholding owners it was they that ultimately benefitted from the compensation. The banks themselves have long gone in most cases, the shareholding families are still with us and still benefitting from the compensation paid.

Over the years many of the large estates built on slavery profits have been broken up by taxation and returned to the state, but there are still a lot that are still on family control.

not specific slaves, just random ones
I’m not suggesting reparation for slavery is an easy topic to discuss, much less to resolve. These people weren’t random, they were real individuals enslaved and brutally treated. Dismissing them in this way now is abhorrent imo.

I agree completely with grandMattie.

Two hundred plus years ago, it was a different world then with very different values. Years ago, I learnt from my mother that my great grandfather had 'owned' seven slaves. Not seven particular slaves, just random ones. It was through a bank investment account. Probably the bank owned a plantation (and it's slaves) somewhere and it was a way of raising investment cash. I expect the banks and their share holders were among those getting the compensation we all paid through our taxes.

We should learn from the past, move on and invest in dealing with present day slavery.

Sparklefizz

nanna8

I think Denmark and Norway should give me compensation for invasion of my country of birth. Damned Vikings, and they had the cheek to intermingle with my ancestors and give me some of their DNA!

Ditto nanna8 I have their DNA too.

Let's not forget the Romans, the Barbary pirates, all slave merchants, horrid phrase, but that is what our islands suffered.

nanna8

I think Denmark and Norway should give me compensation for invasion of my country of birth. Damned Vikings, and they had the cheek to intermingle with my ancestors and give me some of their DNA!

Ditto nanna8 I have their DNA too.

Oreo, the Windrush generation may have ‘chosen’ to come to the UK but like many other groups from former colonies, they were invited because the UK needed workers. As others have said, they all to often were subjected to racism.
Their ancestors didn’t choose to be enslaved and it’s clear the legacy of slavery lingers.
It’s right there’s a serious debate about compensation for the damage the slave trade caused

C of E is asset rich and cash poor!
What really annoys me about this reparation, is that the British bought the slaves. They didn’t go and find them, the6 were supplied y many willing vendors; the Arab slavers, the chiefs of villages, all of whom mad3 a lot of money too.
Then what about the Barbary pirates who had raids in Europe, Cornwall, up to Scandinavia. There were almost impossible means of buying them back - we have never asked for compensation or reparation from them. Perhaps we should.
I think bygones should be bygones and any money used to help today’s slaves and destitute.

Reading this thread led me to see if Germany was paying compensation to victims of the Holocaust. It is. This makes complete moral sense.
I think though that if the Church of England is going to recompense for slavery, will other Christian denominations follow? Or did Catholics not benefit from slave labour for example?

The C of E is not wealthy. That is a misconception. The Church has a huge maintenance bill to pay , a lot of stipends to find and retired clergy to pay pensions for.

It seems to be a common theme that what's gone is gone and nobody now should be held responsible for what happened in the past.

But what happened then continues to affect generations that were not directly involved.

The capture, deportation, degradation and de-humanisation of the enslaved people was carried out on an industrial scale by people who considered themselves to be law-abiding citizens and who had memorials erected to praise their "good works".

All nations who were involved in the slave trade benefited from, and continue to benefit from, the theft of natural resources and the free labour that they received.

As others have already pointed out, slave owners were recompensed but those whose forebears suffered enslavement, humiliation and loss of identity seem to have been forgotten.

I know someone will come along and say it was, but it absolutely wasn’t and I’m not swallowing that kind of nonsense.

Oreo

Those slaves are long, long gone.
It’s stupid to keep giving in to this wokery.Most black people in the UK chose to travel here to live from the West Indies and have benefited, as is their right to an education here and a wide choice of jobs and careers.
The Church of England lost it’s way years ago and is reaping as it sowed to use a biblical saying.
I’m not a member but would refuse to contribute in church if that’s what they spend the money on.Churches nearly always need refurbishment, new roof or whatever and clergy at the lower end poorly paid.

I agree Oreo.
Slavery was nothing to do with me!

Oreo

Those slaves are long, long gone.
It’s stupid to keep giving in to this wokery.Most black people in the UK chose to travel here to live from the West Indies and have benefited, as is their right to an education here and a wide choice of jobs and careers.
The Church of England lost it’s way years ago and is reaping as it sowed to use a biblical saying.
I’m not a member but would refuse to contribute in church if that’s what they spend the money on.Churches nearly always need refurbishment, new roof or whatever and clergy at the lower end poorly paid.

Oreo. Do you honestly believe that the Caribbean communities who arrived post war benefitted from a wide choice of jobs and careers?

They faced horrific prejudice and abuse from every establishment and at every level of society. Landlords refused them housing, shops refused to serve them, entertainment venues turned them away and most shameful and hurtful of all so did the C of E (see my post above).

Signs declaring "no blacks, no Irish and no dogs" were common place. The Racial Equalities Act of 1968 (thanks to the Labour party) made many of these practices technically illegal but in reality it still continued for years afterwards which affected their children and grandchildren.

A valid point Freya. The Africans themselves were responsible for running a profitable trade in selling their own
people to wealthy businessmen. Both parties guilty of this inhumane treatment of other human beings.

Britain was the first country to condemn slavery while other Europeans and Americans continued to do so.

Compensation should have been given to those used for slavery by the guilty, wealthy parties in the 17th century. Who are we supposed to compensate in this century?

I think Denmark and Norway should give me compensation for invasion of my country of birth. Damned Vikings, and they had the cheek to intermingle with my ancestors and give me some of their DNA!

Maggiemaybe

There are an estimated 50 million modern day slaves living now, some even in this country. These are the people truly suffering the impact of slavery and any spare cash, from any source, could imho be better spent on work leading to freeing them.

We give a small monthly donation to our local church. I hope it goes towards necessary upkeep, the outreach work they do, such as their bereavement group and food bank, and the support they give to an African parish they’re twinned with. The C of E offering £100m compensation and seemingly accepting responsibility for having a 30 year stake in a particular company over 300 years ago has led directly to this demand and threatens all the good work done by local teams.

There are plenty in the UK who are enslaved or bonded by debt, under threat of death if they don’t do as they’re told.
They are in every large town or city.
Worldwide many millions probably far more than 17th century.

Well, the C of E might have enjoyed an enduring congregation if it hadn't turned the Windrush generation away at the church doors. It actively and shamelessly denied devout Christians who sought solace amid appalling prejudice the right to worship. This was post war by the way. Hush money me thinks.

There are an estimated 50 million modern day slaves living now, some even in this country. These are the people truly suffering the impact of slavery and any spare cash, from any source, could imho be better spent on work leading to freeing them.

We give a small monthly donation to our local church. I hope it goes towards necessary upkeep, the outreach work they do, such as their bereavement group and food bank, and the support they give to an African parish they’re twinned with. The C of E offering £100m compensation and seemingly accepting responsibility for having a 30 year stake in a particular company over 300 years ago has led directly to this demand and threatens all the good work done by local teams.