The potential of no longer paying National Insurance.

Has nobody considered the fact that, if NI, that no one over retirement age pays, goes and those levies are subsumed into general taxation, increasing all our taxes to cover it, then most pensioners will magically have to pay the equivalent of NI for the rest of our lives - crafty!

Not necessarily - and it’s not going to happen any time soon.

maddyone

It’s not just this government, Labour are also signed up to getting rid of NI. Both parties want to ditch the payment of state pensions and make them means tested.

Where have you got the information about Labour ditching the payment of state pensions and making them means tested from maddyone, I can’t find anything saying that is their policy?

Just waiting for the WASPI outcome of those that were cheated at pension age . April 2024 is next hearing .

Casdon
Apologies, I thought I’d heard it on a news programme, but I just checked online and can’t find anything about it. I must have misheard or imagined it.
I truly hope KS does want to keep NI because if it is got rid of, I think that is the first step to means tested state pensions, and I believe that those who pay in taxes and/or NI should be able to claim a state pension, even though it’s very small and one of the worst in the first world I think.

Tax burden is at its highest in decades! The scrapping of NI, while I think it’s a good idea, is just a way for the government to distract us from that and many other issues which are equally pressing. That being said, I don’t actually trust ANY political party to work for the good of the majority anymore. All have axes to grind over their own obsessions and try to manipulate the voters with pretty promises like the latest thoughts on NI. What we REALLY need is a determined and visionary leader to pull us back from the brink. There’s not a single one on the horizon and the latest attempted enticements from the government are simply not going to improve life for the foreseeable future.

I can imagine the current government shower moving to scrap NI and making it mandatory to take out private health insurance which, as we all know, is a Russian Roulette approach to whether or not you get appropriate treatment: or will the insurance provider simply refuse to pay up citing your medical condition as "pre-existing", an all purpose excuse for taking your premiums in return for..........precisely nothing. And it's legal.

National insurance contributions by the individual are considered to pay statutory sick pay, ,maternity pay and state pension. I was told I had not got enough contributions for a full state pension and had to buy missing contributions. - so is the intention to stop paying all of these benefits in the future ?

to focused 1 - this is not about the changing of the age for the state pension but the lack of notice. For the majority of women there was sufficient notice but there is a small minority that had just a few months notice.

Hear hear

Mae exactly back door established to make us pay for private health care and dentistry
It’s what the Tories have worked for during their long reign

NI is like Vehicle Tax, neither are strictly applied to what they were originally intended for. If the Vehicle tax was still intended for roadbuilding/maintenance electric cars, being a lot heavier than petrol/diesel would be heavily penalised onstead of having reduced vehicle tax.

If NI is phased out or replaced by a private scheme it will have to be replaced by taxing the wealthy, not income tax some kind of tax on assets. We now have a much smaller proportion of the population working AI is likely to make that worse, NI is inadequate already.

I don’t think the Labour Party are against that sort of change, but it’s not just going to hit the super rich

When my friend requested a pension forecast, she was informed she was so many contributions short. She paid the shortfall (with difficulty) and thought all was well. Shortly afterwards she was diagnosed with cancer and was extremely ill, necessitating being signed off work for a year. She tried to claim sickness benefit(not sure of the proper name) and was told she was ineligible as she was so many contributions short. When she tried to tell them that she had already paid the shortfall in her NI contributions, she was told she had only repaid the pension portion, not the NHS portion. We all thought it was one pot. Who knew?

BlueBelle

Mae exactly back door established to make us pay for private health care and dentistry
It’s what the Tories have worked for during their long reign

Sadly I thought you’re right BlueBelle.

I opted to pay an into my pension fully and not the reduced married women’s stamp. Then as I worked in the nhs we were opted out,but I paid extra value contributions hoping it would help when the time came,but we found out a few years earlier that I’d not paid enough into the state pension even though I’d paid avc’ so paid an extra £68 per month for my last two years.still not enough for a full state pension!
I took it early at 56 which was allowed and encouraged.
What poor pensions they are.Just above the pension credit,and we thought we were doing right.Its a minefield

Lovetopaint037

I don’t trust them. Yes we know it all goes into a pot which has been pilfered over the years but the huge loss of revenue must affect the NHS and Pensions.

Agree with you ^^. I have always thought that NI contributions should be divided into Pension, NHS and unemployment/sick pay and these three should be ring fenced. Householders have to budget in this way so why can't the government?

Amalegra

Tax burden is at its highest in decades! The scrapping of NI, while I think it’s a good idea, is just a way for the government to distract us from that and many other issues which are equally pressing. That being said, I don’t actually trust ANY political party to work for the good of the majority anymore. All have axes to grind over their own obsessions and try to manipulate the voters with pretty promises like the latest thoughts on NI. What we REALLY need is a determined and visionary leader to pull us back from the brink. There’s not a single one on the horizon and the latest attempted enticements from the government are simply not going to improve life for the foreseeable future.

We need the NI to pay for the nhs, pensions and sick/unemployment payments. It should be ring fenced and not used like a "rainy day fund". What about all the contributions people have paid for 45 years? I don't think I trust ANY MP's now..

RVK1CR

Lovetopaint037

I don’t trust them. Yes we know it all goes into a pot which has been pilfered over the years but the huge loss of revenue must affect the NHS and Pensions.

Agree with you ^^. I have always thought that NI contributions should be divided into Pension, NHS and unemployment/sick pay and these three should be ring fenced. Householders have to budget in this way so why can't the government?

If pensions, NHS and unemployment/sickness/disability benefits were only financed by NI payments, we'd have to get used to paying much more in NI.

In 2022/23, the government received approx £176bn from NICs.

The NHS cost approx £169bn and the state pension (without pension credit or extras like the winter fuel payment) cost approx £124bn.

£169bn + £124bn = £293bn, so it's obvious that National Insurance doesn't pay for the NHS and state pensions, quite apart from the other benefits people think are funded by NICs.

No, the money paid in NI doesn't go into a separate pot. It is just put in the general government bank account together with every other source of tax.

State pensions are paid from revenue, not from money set aside for that purpose, so whether people pay separately into a NI fund is entirely irrelevant.

What bothers me is the way government play fast and loose with NI. I think it should be a hypothocated tax and, over the years it should be built up so that, may be in 50 or 60 years, there is a capital invested fund that produces enough income to pay state pension, that uses revenue taxes as a fall back in bad investment return years, but little less.

Birthrates are declining. The number of people in the workforce - unless we allow massive immigration - will fall as well, while the number of older people grows and this imbalance in the age distribution may mean that pensions will have to shrink in value because younger people will be unwilling to cope with ever rising taxation to pay pensions.

Do we wish to impose an impoverished old age on our children and grandchildren, where they will look back and think we lived in clover?

Another ridiculous announcement that thankfully won’t happen.

It would mean a cut in government revenue of £46bn - all unfunded.

That is on a par with Truss’s insanity and look where that took us!

The intention to phase out NICs in years to come was announced - it is not going to happen in the near future so it can’t be classed as ‘unfounded’. Obviously the loss of revenue from NICs would have to be covered by an increase in other taxes.

NICS is already just an extra tax.

And one which hits employers too.

I agree with you MOnica. The whole thing needs long-term planning. It's far too important to leave to the whims of the government of the day. It needs some kind of cross-party consensus/agreement and a long lead-in time.