Much as the title says. I know some GNetters have been fierce supporters of Israel's right to defend themselves by their incursion into Gaza. As the months go by and more information becomes available with regard to the treatment, deaths etc of Palestinians, has this changed anyone's opinion? Today evidence of the treatment of doctors and patients in the Nasser Hospital has been verified. Does this change your opinion?
Anniebach ^I did read links at the start of this thread but not now, they will all be anti Israel^…..^I think things through^…..
The link I mentioned was from an article in the Guardian by Jonathan Freedland who is Jewish and a supporter of Israel
I think it is important to be informed from many sources, not just those with which we agree.
Anniebach says she reads very few links on this thread and yet she responds to posts often making accusations as though she had. Ignorance is bliss l suppose .
There is none so blind as those who will not see.
Farzanah I did read links at start of this thread but not now, they will all be anti Israel, I think things through, the surgeon
interview posted here, impossible to be true, I checked with several medics, the human body could not survive.
Israel will not allows reporters in Gaza, who feeds the sites where links are posted. The dismissing of Ukraine war, the civilian casualties given in February, the constant use of the children card, every video from Gaza - children, no adults, not true in wars, old and young die. World uproar aid workers killed, yes tragedy, no problem with aid workers killed in Ukraine. All human suffering is so wrong, Jew or Gentile .
I am told often here i don’t care for the suffering in Gaza,my faith has been mocked, I join in pray with all faiths
United Nations Human Rights Council adopts resolution for Israel to be held accountable for war crimes in Gaza…
UN draft text calls on countries to cease the sale, transfer and diversion of arms, munitions and other military equipment to Israel…
The strongly worded text repeatedly names Israel, stressing it is “The Occupying Power”…
It demands that Israel end its occupation of all Palestinian territories and “immediately lift its blockade on the Gaza Strip and all other forms of collective punishment”
I can understand the feelings for revenge in view of what happened to innocent Israelis, but an Army is supposed to be a disciplined force and their stated aim was to root out Hamas.
Callistemon21
^There have been rumours for some time that the Israeli army isn't very disciplined and that some personnel don't follow the rules, but nobody takes much notice^
I said before this that some of the IDF are out of control.
I think most of us understand that innocent people are always the victims in war, it is heartbreaking, but deliberate shooting of young children, pregnant women, brings them down to the abhorrent level of the Hamas terrorists.
Yes, I think that ex-IDF members have documented the lack of control and accountability. An interviewee in Israel, accounted how the conscripted young lack discipline and are too ready to shoot, kill and maim.
Anniebach out of genuine interest if you do not read links, where in fact do you get your obviously very formed opinions from?
I accept that it is not possible to be completely unprejudiced, but I believe that it is important to seek information from as reliable many sources as possible, which helps to inform opinion.
Naturally with the awareness that we are all prone to confirmation bias.
I read very few links on this thread,
The story regarding the junior female watchers who reported that something was "going on" has been verified, it's been in the Israeli press. Also in the Israeli press, articles about how IDF soldiers have been looting homes, areas where they shoot anyone who appears, abuse detainees etc, it's all very easy to find but I'm unable to post links to make it easier for you. I've signed up to a daily update from Haaretz, easy and foc.
There have been rumours for some time that the Israeli army isn't very disciplined and that some personnel don't follow the rules, but nobody takes much notice
I said before this that some of the IDF are out of control.
I think most of us understand that innocent people are always the victims in war, it is heartbreaking, but deliberate shooting of young children, pregnant women, brings them down to the abhorrent level of the Hamas terrorists.
Stories ? Hamas busy again
Callistemon21
nanna8
A lot of my volunteers were Vietnam vets. They did a variety of jobs including meals on wheels, transporting people with a disability, visiting lonely people in nursing homes. Just saying.
Yes, a lot of ex-military do charity and aid work, some volunteering, others paid. Their expertise in so many fields is invaluable and they are not afraid of hard work.
Israel knew these were vehicles carrying aid workers and targeted them, part of their campaign of starvation no doubt.
Perhaps they thought the world, including the USA, would not react in the way it did.
The IDF is claiming that the people operating the drones didn't realise they were aid workers, despite the massive signage on the top and side of the vehicles. WCK did everything by the book. The IDF had been informed of their movements and this was supposed to be a "deconflicted zone", where there is not supposed to be fighting. Even if the IDF's story is true, it shows that communication between the various units is chaotic, if the drone operators weren't aware of the aid convoy.
It's sad in a way that this incident has only attracted attention because there non-Palestinians were killed, when so many other humanitarian workers have also been killed but nobody took any notice. There have been rumours for some time that the Israeli army isn't very disciplined and that some personnel don't follow the rules, but nobody takes much notice. If it's true that drone operators hadn't been informed of the aid convoy's movements, it lends weight to that argument. There was also a story that junior "watchers" realised that there was something going on before 7 October, but senior officers didn't take any action following the reports.
The answer to "why a particular interest in Palestine" is partly historical: in the last century several colonial powers dominated the area and it was decisions by the UK and the US led to the formation of an Israeli State. It's been one of the most hotly contested areas in the world because of its then strategic importance.
I've just waded through this history
www.britannica.com/place/Palestine/World-War-I-and-after
It does give a lot of understanding how matters came to be as they are now.
nanna8
A lot of my volunteers were Vietnam vets. They did a variety of jobs including meals on wheels, transporting people with a disability, visiting lonely people in nursing homes. Just saying.
Yes, a lot of ex-military do charity and aid work, some volunteering, others paid. Their expertise in so many fields is invaluable and they are not afraid of hard work.
Israel knew these were vehicles carrying aid workers and targeted them, part of their campaign of starvation no doubt.
Perhaps they thought the world, including the USA, would not react in the way it did.
Puzzling, what differences between Palastine and Ukraine, between Russia and Israel- surely not !
Nor weekly marches protesting against Putin.
Not world wide concern for Ukraine, strange
Of course the difference with the deaths of these aid workers is they were killed by the people who should have been protecting them and there is world wide concern over how Israel is conducting this war. I've seen incidents of deaths of aid workers in Ukraine and they've been killed by Russian soldiers. Every death is desperately sad but it is a fact that some will be more news worthy than others (not my opinion just a fact) and how Israel is using the IDF in Gaza is in the media of just about every country. The "accidental" killing of aid workers has apparently happened rather a lot in Gaza but with these being non-Palestinian this time it's become a real issue. I understand Israel is going to offer compensation to the families.
Yes Israel is being made to look a pariah state,
Whatever “side” or none you are inclined to take in this dreadful war there is an interesting article by Jonathan Freedland in the Guardian 5th April which I think worth reading. After six months, the war in Gaza is making Israel a pariah state.
World wide criticism for the deaths of aid workers this week
tragically many before in Palastine and Israel and Ukraine
Incidentally the pay for the four aid workers who died is either extremely poor, or non existent. They were simply trying to help people.
It’s your interpretation that it’s a lack of compassion. You’re wrong!
However it’s helpful to look at things realistically. War is brutal. People get killed and injured. Ex military are fairly used to this, much more than we are. They make choices just like we do. They choose to go to war torn areas as protection officers because the pay is good. Mostly it pays off but on this occasion it didn’t. It’s very, very sad for all concerned, especially their own children. Similar things have happened in Ukraine too without a lot of media attention. It’s still very sad wherever it happens.
Ex military do all sorts of well paid work I just don't understand why the pay of people who have been killed by the IDF whilst working for an aid charity is of any relevance. What's really the issue here? It's certainly not compassion for the men who died or their families.
There’s a reason ex military go to other dangerous countries, usually war torn. They are well paid to do it.
That doesn’t diminish the loss of life though.
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