Is there anyone who still thinks that Israel's actions in Gaza are justifiable?

Anniebach

He certainly didn’t start a fracas with Hamas

No, he allowed them to arm themselves as he wanted them to be in conflict with Fatah in the West Bank. Common knowledge in Israel. Link to The Times of Israel the day after 07/10

www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

I read reports by the UN Geneva of Israel attacking warehouses where aid is being stored waiting for Israel to open the northern Gaza border, which apparently they have no intention of doing.

Starvation by those in northern Gaza is a weapon Israel has no compunction in using.

He certainly didn’t start a fracas with Hamas

This

“Al Shifa hospital is the Gaza strips largest and most advanced medical facility, and has been operating for over 70 years. And now Israel has completely destroyed it.”

Netanyahu’s days are clearly numbered - it can’t come soon enough imo.

Let’s hope he doesn’t start a fracas with Hezbollah to remain in power.

Better late than never WW but I suspect it’s because he was worried about the many prospective Labour voters who have been criticising Labour’s stance until now.

Was it taken in context

A strong change of focus

Keir Starmer has condemned "terror" in Gaza, criticised "forced" starvation of Gazans and demanded immediate "end to killing of innocent Palestinians. No equivocation – that must happen now".

merlotgran

^At about 8:15 AM on August 6, 1945, Hiroshima became the first city in the world to be struck with an atomic bomb.^

Japan formally surrendered to the Allies on September 2, 1945.

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The negotiations about a surrender had been going on for some time in June and July. The declaration by the Soviet Union of war with Japan was significant. There were plans to drop a third bomb.
www.osti.gov/opennet/manhattan-project-history/Events/1945/surrender.htm
September 2nd was the final signing.

Oreo what is it you applaud about Candelle's post? It's a list of events that may or may not be true. EgThe IDF is not "protecting the Al Shifa" hospital they have destroyed it as a medical facility. When and where did the school bus get fired on by Hamas terrorists dressed as IDF? Etc etc

Candelle
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

paddyann54

Katie59 I think if you look you will find that the Emperor of Japan had already surrendered when America dropped THE bomb .Those deaths were needless and intended to keep oher populations under control simply by threatening them with nukes.There are interviews with the pilots who dropped the bombs telling the fact and that they were told to still proceed with Bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki .I have been a member of CND since my teens ,I know that this is true

I bet a lot of what you think is true is anything but.

At about 8:15 AM on August 6, 1945, Hiroshima became the first city in the world to be struck with an atomic bomb.

Japan formally surrendered to the Allies on September 2, 1945.

🤔🤔

paddyann54 I don't think you are correct, the first atomic bombs were dropped on 6th and 9th August 1945, Japan offered to surrender on the 10th August and the official surrender took place on 2nd Sept, following negotiations and acceptance of terms. fwiw, Japan waived it's right to prosecute the US for war crimes, so the residents of Hiroshima and Negasaki sued the Japanese government. It was accepted that the bombings were war crimes but not that individual people had a right to claim compensation.

Katie59 I think if you look you will find that the Emperor of Japan had already surrendered when America dropped THE bomb .Those deaths were needless and intended to keep oher populations under control simply by threatening them with nukes.There are interviews with the pilots who dropped the bombs telling the fact and that they were told to still proceed with Bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki .I have been a member of CND since my teens ,I know that this is true

Candelle like many I have emphasised that its not "Israel" but the actions of those currently in power as there are many people of Israel who do not agree with the government.
this has emerged quite a lot in the 17 pages of discussion.

May I ask a question? Do you support the armed occupation of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip in 1967 by the then Israeli government?
Much of what is happening now dates from those actions.

Candelle you mention rockets fired by Hamas into Israel but these are presumably diverted by superior Israeli weaponry before doing any damage but if you know, how many Israeli civilians have been killed by Hamas since /after 8 October? I would guess few but unlike the Palestinian numbers it is never reported. Every person who dies in war is a tragedy but it highlights the power and wealth imbalance between the two.

I have huge sorrow for the 30,000 plus Palestinian civilians who have been killed, lost limbs, family members, homes and all their possessions now living in the rubble of what were once homes, without food water or medical aid. I struggle to understand the lack of compassion from some. Most ordinary people just wants peaceful life, where sometimes their leaders don’t.

“Have you considered that Japan declared war on the US by bombing Pearl Harbour. 3,000 American citizens died.

800,000 Japanese then perished.”

That was civilian deaths
Add to that over 2m Japanese military deaths, most Japanese did not surrender such was their fanatical belief the fought to the end

By mid 1945 the invasion was predicted and the losses predicted by the Japanese themselves was 20m, yet they still didn’t surrender, it took 2 atomic bombs to convince them to accept defeat.

There are parallels with Hamas when you have an enemy that is prepared to die for the cause and see tens of thousands of their own civilians die, how do you fight them. I’m sure the Japanese mindset in 1945 was just the same.

Candelle Anyone who has read any of the threads about Gaza will know what my views are ie I absolutely condemn the attack by Hamas on 07/10, but I think the response by Netanyahu and his government cannot be justified. Israel has to conduct it's war against Hamas according to the Geneva convention, rules of war and it isn't. What atrocities have been committed by Hamas cannot and should not be used as justification. Perhaps you would explain in what way my opening thread is "skewed"? It is a completely open question but clearly you have not bothered to read the responses. fwiw, when I put information into a thread I always try to post a link to the source .

Judith Butler, a Jewish philosopher, political commentator and professor speaks about the violence and the demonisation of Palestinians www.google.com/search?q=judith+butler+israel&oq=Judith+Butler+Isra&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqCggAEAAYxwMYgAQyCggAEAAYxwMYgAQyBggBEEUYOTIICAIQABgWGB4yCAgDEAAYFhgeMggIBBAAGBYYHjIGCAUQRRg9qAIAsAIA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld

* To the OP, Foxie 48*, no absolutely not and your question was one of the most ridiculously skewed questions I have seen anywhere and it is quite obvious where your views lay.

Hamas declared war on Israel. War.

War takes money. Money was given to the Palestinian leaders to help improve the life and lot of their people, to develop commerce and trade. It was spent on war. Also please note that the Hamas leaders do not live in poverty.....

Have you considered that Japan declared war on the US by bombing Pearl Harbour. 3,000 American citizens died.

800,000 Japanese then perished.

War has casualties on both sides.

I have not been able to read many of the posts here but the few I have looked at show the same extremes, either pro or anti-Israel but I judge many anti-Israel. Not pro-Hamas, purely anti-Israel.

So, a few recent facts (that you will not read in the press):
•Iran is resupplying Hezbollah’s arms through its personnel in Syria.
•There remains a sense that Hamas is hedging bets to see if the last two weeks of Ramadan will lead to increased violence in other sectors that they can exploit to increase the pressure on Israel.
•The IDF has also released footage of interrogations of Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) gunmen apprehended in Shifa. One states that "600 to 1,000 Hamas operatives are hiding in the hospital."
•Gunmen disguised in IDF uniforms opened fire on a bus of schoolchildren and surrounding vehicles. The bus was bullet-proofed.
•Explosive devices were thrown at Israeli public.
•A vehicle containing primed explosives was safely destroyed and weapons seized.
•In northern Israel, Israel is fighting Hezbollah and the Shite Amal movement.
•Hamas has fired rockets and anti-tank missiles into northern Israel, ten in one morning.
•Israel is also fighting al-Jama'a al-Islamiyya in northern Israel.
•Hamas have made it clear that they would like nothing better than to conduct another slaughter as on October 7th. Hamas believe that by the US abstaining at the UN Security Council vote, they are encouraged to take a hard line and to believe that international pressure will prevent Israel from freeing hostages and destroying it.
•In the al Shifa hospital and surrounding area of Al Amal, in the last ten days. 200 Hamas and Palestinian fighters were eliminated. Israel continues to work to protect the hospital.

I hope that many of you will realise that there are several different players at work, not just Hamas.

I hope that you also realise that in years to come, many of those players will want to work internationally, including the UK (some are here now trying to influence matters). I wonder how you would feel about them then...?

Netanyahu, always right wing, has been elected 3 x since 1996 covering much of the last 30 odd years. This most recent election meant in order to form a government he needed to form a coalition and he chose to partner with extreme far right groups.

Over the years he has been charged with a number of criminal offences and he and his coalition has recently tried to remove the power and independence of the Israeli judiciary which had it been successful would have been very helpful to him when no longer in power, if that ever comes about, when he is arrested.
Is this a democracy to be upheld as a shining light ?

The people of Gaza voted in Hamas 20 years ago when Hamas had a different name and was seen at the time as a steady party with Gazans welfare at heart. They have had no opportunity for elections since.

The Israeli oppression of Palestinians before and especially since 1967 has been discussed at length many times. The wars or incursions every 3 or 4 years in the last 20 years alone, hardly reported, because few of the casualties were Israeli and the vast majority ie thousands, of the dead were Palestinians, often children throwing stones, still it falls on deaf ears.

I am not justifying what Hamas did in any way, but please understand this did not come out of the blue in October 2023.

I've just listened to the podcast "This American Life" with Ira Glass, one of my favourite podcasts! This latest one is called "All the king's horses", act two is about the journalists that have been killed in Gaza, a list is being compiled by the Committee to protect journalists. It was 97 when the programme was made, it is now 103. There are allegations that the IDF is targetting journalists and if it is true (there is evidence) then that is yet another war crime.
www.thisamericanlife.org/827/all-the-kings-horses

Glorianny

I post much criticism of Israel so this is to balance things a little. Protestors demand an election and the resignation of Netanyahu.. They are joined by those who have held vigils for the hostages. I hope they prevail. www.youtube.com/watch?v=saCFmV-9G84

Thanks

paddyann54 👏