Is there anyone who still thinks that Israel's actions in Gaza are justifiable?

foxie48

Haaretz newspaper this morning. Sorry have had to paraphrase as I can't copy but just google Haaretz and turn off you ad blocker. Clearly it is widely known that information regarding Hamas preparing for an attack was known and ignored!

Eyal Eshel, the father of Sgt Roni Eshel who was killed on 7/10 at Nahal Oz said to his daughter's commander at a ceremony to commemorate the deaths.
"You are part of this event, the girls burned because of you. I will haunt you till your dying day."

I have frequently read exactly that from numerous sources

Haaretz newspaper this morning. Sorry have had to paraphrase as I can't copy but just google Haaretz and turn off you ad blocker. Clearly it is widely known that information regarding Hamas preparing for an attack was known and ignored!

Eyal Eshel, the father of Sgt Roni Eshel who was killed on 7/10 at Nahal Oz said to his daughter's commander at a ceremony to commemorate the deaths.
"You are part of this event, the girls burned because of you. I will haunt you till your dying day."

Israel 's aggression against Palestinians is not for avenging Israel against Hamas , it's for prospering the nation of Israel .

This is not "a war" its murder of innocent people .its ISRAEL taking its actions of the past 70 years to its intended finish.
The state of Israel has been victimising,terrorising ,incarcerating and killing Palestinians almost since the inception of the Israeli state .The world has turned a blind eye....the world is culpable in this genocide and any reaction that comes after the final solution has been achieved.
We cannot and should not let Netanyahu away with this mass murder.

It is noticeable how the tone has changed in the USA media.

Schumer - a senior Jewish politician reflects this tone.

It all depends on your concept of freedom there comes a point where one side or the other gives up or is subdued. Across the whole world there are groups that want to rule themselves but accept grudgingly in the reigning administration. Every nation surrounding Israel maintains a large army to suppress terrorist attacks by groups that oppose the ruling party

maddyone

Jackiest

Israel may win this battle but it won't win the war. As this is a war that can not be won with guns and killing people. It is a war that can only be won with abandoning racism and religion and showing consideration for others and treating everyone equally.

Have you told Hamas?

I would say it to Hamas and I say it to the Israelis. I do not take sides. It is fighting and killing that I am against. They will achieve nothing in this war apart from encouraging more fighting and killing.

Jackiest

Israel may win this battle but it won't win the war. As this is a war that can not be won with guns and killing people. It is a war that can only be won with abandoning racism and religion and showing consideration for others and treating everyone equally.

Have you told Hamas?

Headline in the Washington Post yesterday
"Israel faces crisis of its own making as chaos and hunger engulf Gaza"

CNN today
Analysis: A speech that sent shockwaves from Washington to Jerusalem
"Schumer’s rebuke of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu Thursday contained extraordinarily strong language for a senior US politician criticizing the Israeli government. It was all the more remarkable coming from the New York Democrat who has a long record of staunch support for the Jewish state.

The Senate floor speech was also an unmistakable sign of increasing frustration among top Democrats about Netanyahu’s conduct of the war in Gaza following the October 7 Hamas terror attacks that killed 1,200 people and his unwillingness to listen to US advice. It also reflects political realities in the United States.

The deaths of more than 30,000 Palestinians in the conflict, according to the Ministry of Health in Gaza, have outraged US progressives, Arab Americans and younger voters in the US – all key parts of President Joe Biden’s coalition as he seeks reelection."

If you want to understand US politics you need to follow the media. Both the WP and CNN are followed by Americans who are more likely to vote Democrat. You might not follow them but Biden and his team most certainly will.

Oreo

Of course you can’t destroy an idea, that isn’t the point at all
Glorianny but you can rid yourself of as many terrorist extremists who belong to it as to reduce their capabilities, which is what Israel is doing.There isn’t just hamas that wants the destruction of the Israeli State but many extremist groups in the countries surrounding Israel, so they have no illusions about that.
Egypt wishes it didn’t have it’s own extremist nutters and is worried that hamas will become a problem for themselves which is why it won’t let all and sundry through the gates.
As Katie59 says Schumer was expressing his own opinion, the US will always support Israel.
The present right wing government in Israel will hopefully be replaced but not right now! Who has elections with a war going on.

You evidently don't understand what causes people to turn to extremism, or the history of oppressed peoples. It has been tried many times to eradicate uprisings and what we now call terrorism at many times in history. It has never worked. For the simple reason that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. For every one of the extremists that are killed in Gaza another ten will be recruited.
Even if the Palestinian people are completely deprived of a country and subjected to Israeli rule, the ideas will remain and will rise up in the future. The concept that mass slaughter is the answer to any of this is so flawed.

Tell that to hamas.
Of course it’s about winning this battle.The ideology war will always go on.We fight against it in the UK too and have our own
Muslim extremists and would be terrorist organisations.

Israel may win this battle but it won't win the war. As this is a war that can not be won with guns and killing people. It is a war that can only be won with abandoning racism and religion and showing consideration for others and treating everyone equally.

Oreo

Vintagewhine

It's election year, Biden needs votes, he'll be very aware of how his policies affect his ratings and he's capable of changing his policy if he feels he has to. Israel needs US money!

Do you imagine that Presidents can do what they like?
He may want to do lots of things, but would never get anything pushed through that goes against Israel.Votes or no votes.

He is struggling to get money for arms/aid to Ukraine through the senate.

Vintagewhine

It's election year, Biden needs votes, he'll be very aware of how his policies affect his ratings and he's capable of changing his policy if he feels he has to. Israel needs US money!

Do you imagine that Presidents can do what they like?
He may want to do lots of things, but would never get anything pushed through that goes against Israel.Votes or no votes.

Of course you can’t destroy an idea, that isn’t the point at all
Glorianny but you can rid yourself of as many terrorist extremists who belong to it as to reduce their capabilities, which is what Israel is doing.There isn’t just hamas that wants the destruction of the Israeli State but many extremist groups in the countries surrounding Israel, so they have no illusions about that.
Egypt wishes it didn’t have it’s own extremist nutters and is worried that hamas will become a problem for themselves which is why it won’t let all and sundry through the gates.
As Katie59 says Schumer was expressing his own opinion, the US will always support Israel.
The present right wing government in Israel will hopefully be replaced but not right now! Who has elections with a war going on.

It's election year, Biden needs votes, he'll be very aware of how his policies affect his ratings and he's capable of changing his policy if he feels he has to. Israel needs US money!

Hamas will go on.

Hamas is dedicated to the destruction of Israel, if they or others continue with this policy the suffering of Palestinians will continue. It would help a lot if Israel reversed the settlement of Palestinian land but make no mistake there will still be extremists that try to destroy Israel, moderation is needed on both sides.
Israel is a democracy, voters there will decide when and if Netanyahu goes, in the US, Schumer was expressing his own opinion, US government has not and probably will not change its policy.

You many not like my views but they are my opinions on the likely future of the war and the way that Israel should change for the future

Katie59

Nations don’t hold election when there is a war taking place, so that’s a complete red herring Netanyahu has a majority so will stay for sure.
They are winning the war Hamas is fractured and many of their leaders have been killed, if Hamas is not willing to surrender the only uncertainty is how many Palestinians are going to die while Hamas is being eliminated. They are fanatics who fight to the death so we can expect the worst.

Pariah state, most of us already regard Israel as a pariah, many of us before the Gaza conflict even started.

Please could you explain to me how you eliminate an idea? Hamas is not a group of people in Gaza, it is a concept. It is led and organised by people outside Gaza. No matter how many Palestinians die in Gaza Hamas will go on.

Katie59 The point of my post was to show that even amongst American Jews who are known to be staunch supporters of Israel, they do not agree with Netanyahu and his government. That is important because the US fund Israel's military. I think we are all very aware of what Hamas is and what Netanyahu will continue to do with regard to the war but what the US does in the future is important, without the support of the US they will be very exposed to further attacks which will potentially destabilise the Middle East further. That is very dangerous for all of us, we know Israel has nuclear weapons, what we don't know is if Iran have managed to move their nuclear programme forward. This is not some little upset it has the potential to have consequences for us all. The full article in the WP makes it clear that Schumer is aware that any election will be when the war is concluded (whenever that may be) but Biden is already losing traction with voters over his stance and if prominent Jewish people are also taking the position of Schumer, it's a double whammy and Biden needs every vote he can get.

Nations don’t hold election when there is a war taking place, so that’s a complete red herring Netanyahu has a majority so will stay for sure.
They are winning the war Hamas is fractured and many of their leaders have been killed, if Hamas is not willing to surrender the only uncertainty is how many Palestinians are going to die while Hamas is being eliminated. They are fanatics who fight to the death so we can expect the worst.

Pariah state, most of us already regard Israel as a pariah, many of us before the Gaza conflict even started.

I am finding the Washington Post is a useful source of information and in particular how the war in Gaza is being viewed in the US.
Sen Schumer, thinks the Israeli government should hold new elections in a speech warning that Israel risks becoming an international “pariah” under the leadership of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his right-wing cabinet.

Schumer, the highest-ranking Jewish official in the United States and a staunch ally of Israel, said he thinks Israelis understand “better than anybody that Israel cannot hope to succeed as a pariah opposed by the rest of the world” and would choose better leaders if elections were held."
"U.S. officials have increasingly come to believe that Netanyahu is prioritizing his own political survival above all else and that he is more focused on placating far-right members of his coalition than on what is best for Israel. Biden told MSNBC in an interview last week that Netanyahu was “hurting Israel more than helping Israel.”
www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/03/14/israel-elections-netanyahu-charles-schumer/

If only indeed Farzanah

You are right silverlining and I have been aware for years, supporting my local Friends of Palestine group.
However such a systematic repression by Israel of Palestinians for years was ripe for exploitation by those who do not truly have the welfare of the Palestinians at heart, and exploit them for their own motives, for example Hamas, who have their roots in the Muslim Brotherhood.

As usual it’s innocent people who suffer, and continue to do so. Hamas is an ideology and can never “be removed from Gaza” but it will leave any young Palestinians who survive this terrible carnage with vengeance in their hearts.

If only both sides had strong honourable leaders who truly had the well-being of their people at heart, and could negotiate a long term settlement beneficial to both, but realistically this is less likely than ever now.

I became interested in this over 30 years ago and have educated myself about the history.
This latest incident did not come suddenly out of the blue last October it has been going on for decades. Thousands of Palestinians have been killed, , had their land, theirs for generations, taken by force. Their olive trees their way of making a living, destroyed . Whole villages have been and are still being taken violently by settlers wanting more and more land for themselves.
When people are repressed and have no freedom of choice or movement they get angry, we all would.

I have no religion nor connection to anyone or anywhere in the region I just see one with all the power and the other with nought. I will always support the one with nought.

foxie48

"What are the four Geneva Conventions?

Protects the sick, wounded, medical and religious personnel during conflict.
Care for the wounded, sick and shipwrecked during war at sea.
Treat prisoners of war with humanity.
Protect all civilians, including those in occupied territory."

Surely restricting the flow of necessary food and medical aid to civilians, cutting off the water supply, bombing civilian homes, not allowing hospitals to have a power supply etc etc would constitute "war crimes"? Fighting a terrorist organisation like Hamas does not give any country the right to commit war crimes.

Indeed foxie and if we think this is acceptable in any war regardless of the provocation, then we have lost our moral compass.