The new Rwanda Plan

Another 359 on 8 boats yesterday, I don't think the French police are doing much to stop them they probably can't wait to get rid of them but then that only encourages more to come, a win win and millions of Euros in the People Smuggling gangs pockets.

The ones who come over through the visa scheme have done so legally and are paying their own way when they get here, the ones coming over on the small boats are doing so illegally paying people smuggling gangs thousands of Euros to get here. Surely even a child in primary school could see the difference 🤔

vegansrock

Of course the statistics show that the number arriving in small boats pales into insignificance with the thousands of immigrants who come here on visas from places like India, the Philippines, Nigeria etc to plug the gaps in teaching, health and care services and the like. However, it suits this government to concentrate on the small boats as it knows that this appeals to many , and gloss over their loosing control of the borders in other ways.

This just shows how powerful the "small boats" trope is because although I keep abreast of the news in general, I had no idea this was the case.

If there were no boats, desperate people would try other ways to get here (as they still do).

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-55765213.amp

The solution is safe routes, and decent processing systems.

It has been badly handled.

If there were no boats, the people would not risk everything to get here. I can’t understand why, from day I, people were not employed just to wreck and disable the boats, those that do come here processed straightaway, then returned if illegal. It’s disgusting how bad all this has been handled.

Of course the statistics show that the number arriving in small boats pales into insignificance with the thousands of immigrants who come here on visas from places like India, the Philippines, Nigeria etc to plug the gaps in teaching, health and care services and the like. However, it suits this government to concentrate on the small boats as it knows that this appeals to many , and gloss over their loosing control of the borders in other ways.

MaizieD

Callistemon21

I can't comprehend .......... the obsession with numbers

I think statistics are important.
They are vital for planning and policy purposes in many areas. Immigration/emigration is but one.

If statistics were not important, then we would have no need for the ONS.

Numbers mean very little unless they are converted to statistics.

Statistics tell us a different story from the numbers cited for propaganda purposes. It's concentrating solely on those numbers I think which is being termed an 'obsession'.

Ok, understood.

But it doesn't mean the numbers are untrue.

Callistemon21

^I can't comprehend .......... the obsession with numbers^

I think statistics are important.
They are vital for planning and policy purposes in many areas. Immigration/emigration is but one.

If statistics were not important, then we would have no need for the ONS.

Numbers mean very little unless they are converted to statistics.

Statistics tell us a different story from the numbers cited for propaganda purposes. It's concentrating solely on those numbers I think which is being termed an 'obsession'.

I can't comprehend .......... the obsession with numbers

I think statistics are important.
They are vital for planning and policy purposes in many areas. Immigration/emigration is but one.

If statistics were not important, then we would have no need for the ONS.

petra

I hope those who worship at the shrine of the EU realise they have much the same plan, and, send €billions to Libya and Tunisia to stop the migrants.

www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/06/eu-group-european-peoples-party-von-der-leyen-migration-reforms

No one I know who wanted us to remain a member of the EU believes it to be a sacred alter at which to worship. On the contrary, they were quite able to see the fault lines within it but simply believed we were better served, economically, by remaining a component part of it.

There might be some who believe the EU can do no wrong, but I think most GN Remainers are level-headed and are quite able to observe the way it operates with an open mind.

Migration is a global problem, an increasing one. And there's no reason to believe that parties or nations within the EU - or the EU itself - has found the right formula for dealing with it.

And, it should be pointed out, the UK is not the first choice for those seeking refuge from the ravages of war, climate changes, weather-events, poverty and persecution. The vast majority of refugees - above 70% - have chosen to migrate to countries that border their own (some, presumably, in the hope of being able to return ultimately).

According to the UNHCR, Germany, France, Italy, Spain and Greece, are the countries that take in most of those seeking asylum - we rank somewhere further down the list.

We wanted to 'take back control' and protect our borders. What we have effectively done is ask France to be the border and police it for us. France does not have the manpower to police the whole coastline. Once the migrant boats are in the waters, there is little the maritime police can do other than break international maritime laws to stop them. Which they have in fact done - their is footage of them intercepting the dinghies by aggressively circling them causing waves that destabilise the craft.

Dealing with determined and aggressive traffickers is not as easy as some appear to believe - looking at the matter from the comfort of their armchairs. Coastal locations where these traffickers might operate have stopped the sale of dinghies - and outboard motors. The traffickers simply go online and purchase them. The inland police regularly break up the migrant camps - the migrants just move to another location.

Other than a full-scale war with the traffickers - and migrants - I don't see what more the French can do to protect our borders. Perhaps some of the critics could come up with ideas - realistic ones of course that wouldn't subject the maritime police to sanctions from international law. Nor involve the civilian police in committing crimes that might land them in Court. Or even endanger their own lives.

If I was running from danger I don’t think I would choose to run to an island, they are now trapped here along with the rest of us with Ireland possibly the only way out. At least in France the whole of Europe was open to them.

Zakouma66 well said👏

zakouma66

Primrose53

Dickens you say the traffickers are “vicious and violent”. How very dare you say that. 😝You know full well that anybody involved is lovely, honest, hardworking, brave ……. It’s just that they are looking for better lives. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

I can't imagine anybody would be foolish enough to assume that everybody involved is lovely, honest, hardworking brave That would show a very uncritical mind at work. There are shades of behaviour here and many complexities.

Traffickers, I assume are manipulative people who are happy to exploit people for their own gain. They may use threats and violence and all sorts of hideous ways to do this. A sad facet of human nature.

I think its very dangerous and unpleasant to lump hundreds of people together and give negative labels and use negative launguage. I can't comprehend the hatred really. or the obsession with numbers.
I do know, that its a complete waste of time engaging with any discussion .

I agree with you, especially your last sentence.

Primrose53

Dickens you say the traffickers are “vicious and violent”. How very dare you say that. 😝You know full well that anybody involved is lovely, honest, hardworking, brave ……. It’s just that they are looking for better lives. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

I can't imagine anybody would be foolish enough to assume that everybody involved is lovely, honest, hardworking brave That would show a very uncritical mind at work. There are shades of behaviour here and many complexities.


Traffickers, I assume are manipulative people who are happy to exploit people for their own gain. They may use threats and violence and all sorts of hideous ways to do this. A sad facet of human nature.

I think its very dangerous and unpleasant to lump hundreds of people together and give negative labels and use negative launguage. I can't comprehend the hatred really. or the obsession with numbers.
I do know, that its a complete waste of time engaging with any discussion .

Primrose OK then, here’s a non-sarcastic question. What do you, and your border force ‘informant’, think about the cost of the Rwanda scheme to the UK taxpayer … £1.8m per asylum seeker? I’m genuinely interested!

LizzieDrip

Some people just don’t get sarcasm!

What was the point of sarcasm when I was telling you about someone who actually works on the front line. Just stupid.

That was to Primrose

Some people just don’t get sarcasm!

I hope those who worship at the shrine of the EU realise they have much the same plan, and, send €billions to Libya and Tunisia to stop the migrants.

www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/06/eu-group-european-peoples-party-von-der-leyen-migration-reforms

LizzieDrip

^I have said on here before that the person who bought my Mum’s house works in a senior position for Border Force. I see him regularly so I hear first hand what goes on down there^

Oh well Primrose it must be true then. My friend’s cousin’s hairdresser’s next door neighbour knows what’s going on down there too!

Stupid comparison.

Callistemon21

Oreo

The French police were standing around watching the latest boat being pushed into the water and in the video you can see two or three traffickers with sticks.They could shoot them in the legs or use a taser on them if they wanted to.If really threatened by the traffickers they could simply shoot them to protect themselves.No court in France would convict the police over that.
In the interview with the self styled 16 year old, who said he was from Sudan, he had paid 1,000 dollars already and said he would pay again.How did he get that money? You have to wonder.

Perhaps his family clubbed together and found the money to stop their son being made to go into the militia.

It's not like the British Army.

Thanks for the information, I would never have known that🤪

I also suggest that fans of the scheme read up on the current conflict in DR Congo.

The United Nations blames Kigali for funding, training, and equipping the M23 rebels. I’m sure hundreds of millions of £s from the UK will come in very handy for that!

Agreed Vintagewhine. The cost to the UK tax payer of this ridiculous scheme is astronomical. This from Guardian, March 2024:

“Rwanda plan to cost UK £1.8m for each asylum seeker, figures show”

Yes, I’ll repeat that … £1.8million per asylum seeker! Can those of you who love the scheme, who are avidly pouring over lists of daily boat numbers, please justify that cost?

If we had a system whereby people could claim asylum without first being on British soil perhaps they would not risk their lives in small boats. If they are willing to risk their life crossing the channel they will also take the risk that they are not chosen to be sent to Rwanda. It's a completely ridiculous idea and the huge cost so far would have been better spent ensuring we have a decent immigration department.