Hunt, the Chancellor, gets his figures wrong!

I agree that a lot of the Tories' problems are of their own making and I wasn't actually defending their performance merely pointing out that whatever party is in govt for 14 yrs will have committed a lot of errors and leave a disillusioned country demanding change.

tories won't get in again thank goodness and if they did and kept the triple lock we'll be paying for our own health care just like they do in the USA, thats what the Tories want.

They all 'bend the truth' just like Boris did with his £325m a week for the NHS, 40 new hospitals etc. etc. even sunak does the same now, I suppose they have nothing to boast about so have to make it up

knspol

Personally I think the Tories have had a lot to contend with, not least the Truss premiership but I also think that it's only natural to be disillusioned with a party that's been in power for so many years when so many things have got worse for so many people. I just think that the rush to vote labour as an alternative will probably end up with us all feeling the same way about them in a few years time.
There just doesn't seem to be as many differences between the two main parties anymore and quite frankly neither side has a real 'leader' or an experienced, reliable team behind them.

A lot of what the Tories have had to contend with is of their own making. Who elected Liz Truss as leader, and Boris Johnson as leader, who instigated Brexit, who had numerous MPs found guilty of wrongdoings in one term etc etc.? Any party in power is of course vulnerable because people want change and it isn’t delivered - but the current level of disillusionment with the party in power is very unusual because so much is down to them shooting themselves in the foot.

knspol

Personally I think the Tories have had a lot to contend with, not least the Truss premiership but I also think that it's only natural to be disillusioned with a party that's been in power for so many years when so many things have got worse for so many people. I just think that the rush to vote labour as an alternative will probably end up with us all feeling the same way about them in a few years time.
There just doesn't seem to be as many differences between the two main parties anymore and quite frankly neither side has a real 'leader' or an experienced, reliable team behind them.

I disagree, there’s plenty of differences between Conservative and Labour. The current labour team haven’t had the opportunity to prove, or disprove, their leadership skills, only time will tell.

I do agree that Covid and Brexit were huge things which the Conservatives had to tackle, but to be honest, right from the start with austerity, several groups of people started to see their living standards drop, especially public sector workers, and we’ve seen rising poverty and decreasing public services.

Only time will tell if a change of govt will mean a change for the better.

Personally I think the Tories have had a lot to contend with, not least the Truss premiership but I also think that it's only natural to be disillusioned with a party that's been in power for so many years when so many things have got worse for so many people. I just think that the rush to vote labour as an alternative will probably end up with us all feeling the same way about them in a few years time.
There just doesn't seem to be as many differences between the two main parties anymore and quite frankly neither side has a real 'leader' or an experienced, reliable team behind them.

MaizieD

^Those who have faith in Labour under Starmer might well be immune to any 'smear' campaign levelled at him or the party^

They're desperately struggling to find anything to smear him with...

I think that the greater part of the electorate is so desperate to get the tories out that smears won't influence them. After all, the UK has fallen apart under the tories and they've not proven to be incorrupt....

The polls can't be so wildly wrong. Can you see the tories coming back from being 22 percentage points behind Labour, with Reform's results rising and them grabbing many of the tory's voters?

I’m not taking anything for granted, neither should anyone!

We have never been poorer and dread any unexpected bills. Never trust a Tory. Labour will have huge problems with the economy if they are elected because of Tory waste and mis-management. Jeremy Hunt is a very wealthy man and can have little understanding of ordinary people’s lives.

I do not think your first contention unlikely. I agree the 'Corbynistas' taking over the party in an open and overt way is unlikely, but throughout its history, Labour has shown the extent that which the far left tail can at times wag the Labour dog and the possibility of another infiltration of the party is always possible.

M0nica

But not voting Labour does not mean voting Conservative. It never has for me - and vice versa.

No, it doesn't and I wasn't assuming it did - I was simply giving some reasons why people say they couldn't vote for the Labour party, two of them given by posters on GN, being fear of "Corbynistas" taking over the party (highly unlikely) and Starmer leading us back into the EU - equally highly unlikely.

But not voting Labour does not mean voting Conservative. It never has for me - and vice versa.

t is also insulting to Labour Party supporters to suggest that they are more persuadeable thaan supporters of the other parties. Why do you think this? class/, age?, lack of education? Shame on you.

Huh?

I'm not talking about Labour party supporters - I'm referring to all those say they could never vote for Labour - and who, when reminded of this current government's record on public services, jump to their defence, suggesting that it's nothing to do with their ideology but blame immigrants and the pandemic. I've seen posters say as much, here on GN!

I don't think I'm saying what you think I'm saying. So no, I'm not ashamed.

One of the posters on here mentioned not voting for Labour because she felt sure the "Corbynistas" would creep back in and another is convinced Starmer will march us back into the EU again. It doesn't take much to heat up these fears in the media, so that those who were undecided decide not to vote for Labour after all. You've only got to play on people's fears a little bit- and the Tories are the masters of this art, as their track record since 2016 proves. They don't need to find facts- insinuations will do fine.

The above is saying we must not look at the whole picture when deciding how to vote. Partys make all kinds of promises ahead of an election, but they are often little more than pius aspirations. Often when any party gets in, at least some of its promises get thrown to the winds for reasons good and bad.

We need to do a SWOT (Strengths Weaknesses, Opportunities and Threats), analysis before we decide how to vote and that includes looking at weaknesses in each individual party, threats in the party, internal as well as external, to imposing its policies.

This applies to all parties and all parties will major in on the other sides perceived weaknesses. Whining that one party is better at this than the other is irrelevant, it is up to the whining party to get its act in order and learn hot be as good as the alternative party.

It is also insulting to Labour Party supporters to suggest that they are more persuadeable thaan supporters of the other parties. Why do you think this? class/, age?, lack of education? Shame on you.

MaizieD

^Those who have faith in Labour under Starmer might well be immune to any 'smear' campaign levelled at him or the party^

They're desperately struggling to find anything to smear him with...

I think that the greater part of the electorate is so desperate to get the tories out that smears won't influence them. After all, the UK has fallen apart under the tories and they've not proven to be incorrupt....

The polls can't be so wildly wrong. Can you see the tories coming back from being 22 percentage points behind Labour, with Reform's results rising and them grabbing many of the tory's voters?

I don't know Mazie - once bitten... I mean we were all so sure that Remain would secure the Referendum. I take nothing for granted now.

I doubt there's much to smear Starmer with (not for want of trying) - but they might dig around the others to see what they can come up with. They could put doubt in the mind of the electorate with a little bit of speculation, without making any outright claims.

One of the posters on here mentioned not voting for Labour because she felt sure the "Corbynistas" would creep back in and another is convinced Starmer will march us back into the EU again.

It doesn't take much to heat up these fears in the media, so that those who were undecided decide not to vote for Labour after all. You've only got to play on people's fears a little bit- and the Tories are the masters of this art, as their track record since 2016 proves.

They don't need to find facts- insinuations will do fine.

As for all those things you've mentioned - well of course everything's in an appalling state, but ask around and you'll find quite a few people will throw in Ukraine, the pandemic, immigration, as being the cause... what's a poor government to do faced with all those "unprecedented" events, eh! I've read such on here, on GN, where posters have sympathised with the government, so of course it's not their fault that we can't get a GP appointment or are stuck on a waiting list for surgery, etc, etc. They did their best, don't you know!

I'm sure that Hunt rubs along on considerably more than £100k a year. He has his Ministerial salary and doesn't he have some rental properties that he completely forgot to declare on the Register of MPs interests?
It was his poor constituent who couldn't manage childcare cost on hat wage...

Whitewavemark2

Mr Hunt finds it difficult to manage on £100000 a year, so I expect he will look with horror at the pension, and give us a magnificent rise!

🤣🤣🤣

The Tories are on the back foot with the triple lock though HousePlantQueen, because Labour confirmed that they would be keeping it in place weeks ago.
I don’t think that’s going to be a show stopper at all.
www.moneymarketing.co.uk/news/triple-lock-debate-reignited-after-labour-confirms-commitment/
Labour won’t produce their manifesto until the election date is announced, which seems eminently sensible to me, because it once the election is called that waverers will really make their minds up - and it will stop the Tories stealing more ideas or rubbishing new ones before they see the light of day.

I can't help feeling that this discussion is purely academic. Hunt won't be Chancellor for much longer and the tories face wipeout whatever they do to try to bribe the electorate.

🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞MaizieD

MaizieD

Will promising to put a little money in people's pockets compensate for polluted watercourses, expensive energy, shortage of GP appointments, long hospital waiting lists, broken criminal justice system, poor education facilities, even more people falling into absolute poverty year on year, potholes , bankrupt local authorities cutting services to the bone and selling public assets.... etc, etc?

It is impossible for them to redeem themselves

Dickens

MaizieD

I can't help feeling that this discussion is purely academic. Hunt won't be Chancellor for much longer and the tories face wipeout whatever they do to try to bribe the electorate.

I would like to feel 100% certain you are correct, BUT...

... it isn't just a question of what they pull out of the goodie-bag to bribe the voters - it is also what the dirty-tricks-department might be planning.

Those who have faith in Labour under Starmer might well be immune to any 'smear' campaign levelled at him or the party, but those who are wavering - and I don't know how many they are - could easily be persuaded to withhold their vote if something is unearthed (whether true or false) between now and the election.

My thoughts exactly. The promise of retaining the triple lock on pensions is more about throwing the spotlight on the Labour manifesto, forcing them to state whether they will retain it or not. Obviously, as someone receiving a retirement pension I am interested, but far more concerned about the freezing of personal tax allowances. This will likely bring even people with only a SRP as income, some of whom may be eligible for Pension Credit, into paying income tax.

Those who have faith in Labour under Starmer might well be immune to any 'smear' campaign levelled at him or the party

They're desperately struggling to find anything to smear him with...

I think that the greater part of the electorate is so desperate to get the tories out that smears won't influence them. After all, the UK has fallen apart under the tories and they've not proven to be incorrupt....

The polls can't be so wildly wrong. Can you see the tories coming back from being 22 percentage points behind Labour, with Reform's results rising and them grabbing many of the tory's voters?

MaizieD

Will promising to put a little money in people's pockets compensate for polluted watercourses, expensive energy, shortage of GP appointments, long hospital waiting lists, broken criminal justice system, poor education facilities, even more people falling into absolute poverty year on year, potholes , bankrupt local authorities cutting services to the bone and selling public assets.... etc, etc?

I agree it’s all diversionary talk. The country is in a mess but according to the Tories there is a golden horizon in view if we vote them in again.

Will promising to put a little money in people's pockets compensate for polluted watercourses, expensive energy, shortage of GP appointments, long hospital waiting lists, broken criminal justice system, poor education facilities, even more people falling into absolute poverty year on year, potholes , bankrupt local authorities cutting services to the bone and selling public assets.... etc, etc?

As I listen to him telling us that as the economy is growing he will be able to maintain the triple lock plus other Father Christmas presents it occurs to me that as they are unlikely to be in power he can promise what he likes and let the Labour Party pick up the pieces.

MaizieD

I can't help feeling that this discussion is purely academic. Hunt won't be Chancellor for much longer and the tories face wipeout whatever they do to try to bribe the electorate.

I would like to feel 100% certain you are correct, BUT...

... it isn't just a question of what they pull out of the goodie-bag to bribe the voters - it is also what the dirty-tricks-department might be planning.

Those who have faith in Labour under Starmer might well be immune to any 'smear' campaign levelled at him or the party, but those who are wavering - and I don't know how many they are - could easily be persuaded to withhold their vote if something is unearthed (whether true or false) between now and the election.

MaizieD

I can't help feeling that this discussion is purely academic. Hunt won't be Chancellor for much longer and the tories face wipeout whatever they do to try to bribe the electorate.

Oh oh oh - don’t tempt fate. 😮😮😮😮