Conscription -should UK initiate?

Callistemon21

^Apart small hires of pilots (as I noted) into decent jobs.^

That's just one example!
🤔

Indeed.

I know no other transferable skills (thus my example), but I did say Seems people could acquire skills they need/want. Conscription doesn't seem to be answer, imo, if people don't want that lifestyle.

Also matters, I suppose, if one wants military lifestyle?

I don't think it has entered anybody's mind to "not allow" a family member to do what they want.

That would be ridiculous

HS62, do you think mothers in the past were happy to see their sons go and fight? Many young men joined up because they saw it as their duty.
If my son had wanted to join the army I would have worried but as for "not allowing" him that would never have entered my mind.

If that's what other mothers' sons want to, is the point.

Thank goodness other mothers didn’t think like you when their sons went to two world wars. If your sons are adults you can’t dictate what they decide to do. It’s presumably ok for other mothers’ sons to join up though.

I have young adult sons and there's no way I would allow them to go to war. It would be over my dead body. I didn't give birth to them to have them used as cannon fodder. Those who want to join up are welcome to it. I know there is no way they could kill another human being.

Apart small hires of pilots (as I noted) into decent jobs.

That's just one example!
🤔

growstuff

But what if people are already learning the skills they need/want? Are they to have their careers disrupted to be conscripted to something they don't want to do?

Seems people could acquire skills they need/want. Conscription doesn't seem to be answer, imo, if people don't want that lifestyle.

Apart small hires of pilots (as I noted) into decent jobs.

growstuff

Callistemon My grandfather signed up for the navy in WW1 (as a volunteer). They assessed him and transferred him within a few weeks to the civil service, having realised that his skills would be better used elsewhere - that's what I mean by strategic thinking. By WW2, he was a department head with responsibility for civil and military shipping. The role he played (especially before D Day) couldn't have been done by somebody with just military knowledge. People tend to forget the people behind the scenes who contribute to victory in wars. Another example would be rationing, which had been planned for years before war was actually declared.

You're trying to teach Granny to suck eggs.

Today we hear that the US are taking the threat from Iran to be real and credible...and Tehran saying we're not going to escalate the situation...this is quite disturbing to NATO

Conscription is a bad idea. Armed forces need people who actually want to be there. My mum was a regular in the RAF and loved it but my dad was a conscript and he experienced tropical fever which he received no pension for and he was bitter to the end of his days about his lost youth, so NO.

growstuff

But what if people are already learning the skills they need/want? Are they to have their careers disrupted to be conscripted to something they don't want to do?

I've already said that I wouldn't be in favour of conscription, so I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.

But what if people are already learning the skills they need/want? Are they to have their careers disrupted to be conscripted to something they don't want to do?

Many learn valuable transferable skills in the military. My son and nephew both joined the police force after leaving the army - and know of several others who did the same. My son's best friend was an electronics engineer in the army and now has a very lucrative career with a major electronics firm here in the UK.

Definitely NO!

I don't believe conscription is a good idea, however some people may learn some transferable skills in the military. Take pilots flying - I assume that is a source for BA pilots and that appears to be a decent job.

"An entry-level pilot at British Airways can expect £65,000 annually, according to MyFamilyHome.com. A senior first officer takes home between £100,000 and £120,000 per year. Captain can earn up to £167,000 in yearly pay."

Callistemon My grandfather signed up for the navy in WW1 (as a volunteer). They assessed him and transferred him within a few weeks to the civil service, having realised that his skills would be better used elsewhere - that's what I mean by strategic thinking. By WW2, he was a department head with responsibility for civil and military shipping. The role he played (especially before D Day) couldn't have been done by somebody with just military knowledge. People tend to forget the people behind the scenes who contribute to victory in wars. Another example would be rationing, which had been planned for years before war was actually declared.

growstuff

grannybuy

Self weeding sounds sensible, but there’s always the chance that someone who wasn’t interested, might discover that it’s an opportunity worth considering. Also, a spell in the military might highlight the opportunities there are to learn many skills. I’m not implying whether or not there should be conscription, just thinking of some possibilities. As someone upthread pointed out, in the event of the imminent likelihood of war, conscription might be mandatory. Maybe better to add to numbers, if possible, before a crisis occurs.

I'll ask my son, but I'm pretty sure he'd opt for self-weeding rather than being weeded out. He has a reasonable job, so he's not looking to gain new skills. Not only that, but in the event of a future war, the country is likely to need people with strategic skills rather than more boots on the ground (especially people who don't want to be there).

That's what the Forces teaches you, growstuff

Strategic skills.

Some posters have very limited ideas of what the various services teaches people.

I've known a couple of men who lasted no more than two weeks when they joined the Services voluntarily.
One eventually got into drugs, broke the law and ended up in prison. He is trying to keep on the right side of the law now.
The other became a very successful businessman.

Would the one man have become a better person, made a success of his life, had he persevered and received a good training in skills?

The other man would probably have made a success of his career whatever he chose to do.

PS. Presumably my daughter would also be conscripted and she most definitely would rather be responsible for weeding herself.

grannybuy

Self weeding sounds sensible, but there’s always the chance that someone who wasn’t interested, might discover that it’s an opportunity worth considering. Also, a spell in the military might highlight the opportunities there are to learn many skills. I’m not implying whether or not there should be conscription, just thinking of some possibilities. As someone upthread pointed out, in the event of the imminent likelihood of war, conscription might be mandatory. Maybe better to add to numbers, if possible, before a crisis occurs.

I'll ask my son, but I'm pretty sure he'd opt for self-weeding rather than being weeded out. He has a reasonable job, so he's not looking to gain new skills. Not only that, but in the event of a future war, the country is likely to need people with strategic skills rather than more boots on the ground (especially people who don't want to be there).

A pity the politicians of the various warring factions can’t just fight each other and leave everyone else out of it. Mind you, I wouldn’t fancy the chances of the two old blokes in the USA.

Same argument as I would present Callistemon.
We are talking here about conscription having a meaning far beyond the sphere of military affairs.
Interestingly, in France the old type military service will now be called a Universal National Service and embrace all kinds of aspects.
As for selection, in the early trials it will be the lycées who will send a chosen cohort of 17 year olds to participate at a SNU centre. I'm guessing that the teachers will only recommend those who could cope with the task.

Self weeding sounds sensible, but there’s always the chance that someone who wasn’t interested, might discover that it’s an opportunity worth considering. Also, a spell in the military might highlight the opportunities there are to learn many skills. I’m not implying whether or not there should be conscription, just thinking of some possibilities. As someone upthread pointed out, in the event of the imminent likelihood of war, conscription might be mandatory. Maybe better to add to numbers, if possible, before a crisis occurs.

grannybuy

Conscription could be valuable in some ways. A short spell of training would do no harm to most young people. At the end, it could highlight, to some, that a career in the forces is appealing, ( or not ) and also allow those in charge to
‘ weed out ‘ the ones that they viewed as unsuitable candidates for a military career.

Could those who know at the start that they'd be unsuitable for a military career self-weed themselves?

We're not talking about sending them off to war. I think if politicians start more war-mongering and wanting to interfere in the situations in other countries, as some have done recently, there might be even bigger protests than there were against the Iraq war.

The Forces train in defence, being prepared for states of emergency, logistics, disaster situations etc.

Encouragement to join a service might be better than conscription but why does everyone just keep talking about the Army? 🤔 There are other military services and non-military such as the Fire Service, Coastguard.

But then would all these Services want the kinds of people who would lack a sense of responsibility, care and duty to others anyway?