Does Israel want full scale war in the Middle East?

Palestinians are not liked by the rest of the Arab community.

They have caused trouble when allowed to enter and settle in Arab countries.

This may be why there has not been a wide-scale offer of help from Palestine's extremely wealthy Arab neighbours. Is it why Egypt has kept its border crossing shut?

Gaza should have developed since the last elections in 2006 but has stagnated due to the lack of money (of which there has been much) donated to it from other countries, purloined away from the people. Aid has come in and gone out but not to the Gazan people.

Glorianny asks what Israel could do and writes of a graduated withdrawal from Gaza. Does she not understand that the only reason Israel has any involvement in Gaza is because Hamas have their soldiers hidden amongst the people. It will be impossible for Israel to withdraw under those circumstances.

I always think of World War 11. It is as if, around 1943, the world said to the Allies, 'OK chaps, yo have had a bit of war', now withdraw, despite Germany having occupied much of Europe. One has to root out evil and these people are evil - they do not have the same thoughts as we in the West do. They want all Jews killed (check their manifesto) and nothing less.

The sickening way much of the world has turned against Israel, not the aggressor, often without understanding or knowledge says much about the way we are living at the moment.

Incidentally, have you seen in the press that the number of casualties in Gaza has just been HALVED? All previous figures came from.... Hamas and were lapped up by the press. There was no need to actually check, was there?

Not too much exposure has been given to the these new, accurate figures, eh? Why? It suits the narrative for Israel to be a ruthless killer instead of fighting for its very survival.

Hamas are rather like the Camorra/Mafia. They control their fellow Palestinians by virtue of providing loans or services, so people are indebted to them. This is why they have a great deal of support. Their society is not like ours.

Gaza should have had a society that had developed but there has been little enterprise. This all leads to disenchantment but apparently not with their leaders (note again, no chance of voting Hamas out of power) but with Israel instead.

One may ask why there have not been any elections since 2006? Plenty of time to arrange and hold them..... Could it be to do with the Hamas leaders who do not live in cramped apartment blocks but in comfortable villas etc., They have no desire to relinquish the wealth that comes with money poured in to Gaza which should have been spent on projects for the Palestinian people.

As to the cheering Palestinian mobs celebrating the deaths of 1,200 + Israeli mostly youngsters enjoying a pop festival were not just in Gaza.

In cities in the UK there were processions of cars, honking horns and young men swirling the Palestinian flags out of car windows. One procession drove through a predominately Jewish area flagrantly inciting trouble and causing fear.

Apparently causing fear to others is acceptable in the UK today. Very sad.

I really don't think I could speak for any Palestinian. I haven't grown up in a family of third or fourth generation refugees. I haven't grown up in a country I cannot leave without extremely complicated transactions which mean I may never be able to return. I haven't grown up dependent on aid. But I can try to understand that a desire for freedom is part of human nature and that when that freedom is restricted rebellion results. I don't suppose many Palestinians begin believing that every Israeli should be driven out. I'm sure Hamas don't recruit with that, but it is introduced after the initial attraction of a free Gaza. And like many who have joined organisations for the best of reasons once committed it is difficult to leave and some fully embrace the more horrific ideas.

What could Israel do? Well it could begin by agreeing to implement the UN rulings and remove the right wing settlers from Palestinian territory. It could then begin a negotiated and gradual withdrawal from involvement in any processes in Gaza. I suggested the UN should be involved but another poster suggested the countries of the Middle East should work on this. What is absolutely certain is that if Israel does not begin to work on freeing Gaza and establishing a working democracy the whole cycle will just continue.

Good point GG13.
^ They shouldn’t support a group of terrorists, who committed the most heinous of atrocities on 7/10/2023, who’s Head Honchos have avowed to repeat time and time again until every Jew from the river to the sea is dead!^
In the light of that declaration, what do you think Palestinians should do Glorianny?
What do you think Israel should do?

Glorianny

I do wonder why anyone thinks that Palestinians are recruited by Hamas. Do they believe some Palestinians are intrinsically evil? Or are they simply people driven to desperation by years of oppression, unable to vote, unable to leave the country, unable to work, surviving on aid. What should they do?

They shouldn’t support a group of terrorists, who committed the most heinous of atrocities on 7/10/2023, who’s Head Honchos have avowed to repeat time and time again until every Jew from the river to the sea is dead!

I do wonder why anyone thinks that Palestinians are recruited by Hamas. Do they believe some Palestinians are intrinsically evil? Or are they simply people driven to desperation by years of oppression, unable to vote, unable to leave the country, unable to work, surviving on aid. What should they do?

The unwarranted violence which initiated this round of conflict should not be forgotten.
No one as far as I’m aware, condones the continuing violence. Hamas is determined to continue their gathering of arms, secreting of weapons in places where citizens live, to support their declared intent. Israel is determined to wipe out Hamas to stop them achieving their declared intent.
How can there be peace.
But let’s not forget who committed murders and the atrocities that began this conflict.
Do you think if these protesters were to protest against Hamas, it would have any effect on those terrorists who began this last October?

Anniebach

So not marching for peace

Peace will only be achieved when Palestine is a free country. Sadly until then the pattern of oppression, insurrection, uprising and destruction will simply continue as it has for the past 60 years

The bodies have probably been kept because part of the negotiations involve the return of hostages or their bodies. The bodies of Jews remain sacred and need to be buried however and wherever they died. It is part of their faith. It's why they have dedicated volunteer teams who laboriously clear any human remains after an explosion. It is also important that the body be buried in Israel. So you may consider the retention of the bodies "savage" their Jewish relatives will not.

So not marching for peace

maddyone

By the way, there’s another march in London today. Just saying.

According to the Palestine Solidarity Campaign they will march every Saturday in London till Palestine is free.

By the way, there’s another march in London today. Just saying.

GrannyGravy13

I found the images shown of jeering, cheering and spitting towards the hostages driven into Gaza by Palestinian Citizens after the heinously attacks on 7/10/2023, stomach churning.

Proof that the the citizens of Gaza not only supported these actions but applauded them.

I found it stomach churning too.
That’s why I have never believed that the Palestinians don’t support Hamas. I’m sure there are those who don’t, but it seems clear that many do, if those images are anything to go by. They were, if I remember rightly, men who were cheering and jeering, so I don’t know what the women think.

GrannyGravy13

I found the images shown of jeering, cheering and spitting towards the hostages driven into Gaza by Palestinian Citizens after the heinously attacks on 7/10/2023, stomach churning.

Proof that the the citizens of Gaza not only supported these actions but applauded them.

It’s a real worry that so many of those supporting matches and sit ins use the very existence of Israel to justify something so wicked

petra

maddyone

The news that three bodies have been discovered of Israeli citizens taken into Gaza on 07/10 is very sad news, but will nonetheless be welcomed by the families so that their family members can be laid to rest. They were found in one of the tunnels by Israeli soldiers. This tends to suggest that Hamas are indeed keeping the bodies of hostages who have died, but for what purpose, I don’t know.

but for what purpose, I don’t know
Because they are Neanderthal savages. Plain and simple: they are wired wrong 😡

To torment their loved ones.

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I found the images shown of jeering, cheering and spitting towards the hostages driven into Gaza by Palestinian Citizens after the heinously attacks on 7/10/2023, stomach churning.

Proof that the the citizens of Gaza not only supported these actions but applauded them.

maddyone

The news that three bodies have been discovered of Israeli citizens taken into Gaza on 07/10 is very sad news, but will nonetheless be welcomed by the families so that their family members can be laid to rest. They were found in one of the tunnels by Israeli soldiers. This tends to suggest that Hamas are indeed keeping the bodies of hostages who have died, but for what purpose, I don’t know.

but for what purpose, I don’t know
Because they are Neanderthal savages. Plain and simple: they are wired wrong 😡

Quote maddyone Fri 17-May-24 23:30:24
One of the girls whose body has been recovered was at the music festival where it seems she was murdered. Her half naked body was thrown in a truck and driven into and around Gaza. It is reported that crowds of people in Gaza stood around the truck jeering and one person spat at her. Presumably all these people were not Hamas, although they may have supported Hamas. They were showing their disrespect for the 22 year old girl who Hamas murdered.

The question was Does Israel want full scale war in the Middle East?
I would turn the question around; Does Hamas want full scale war in the Middle East? And additionally does Hamas want to look after the citizens in Gaza? And additionally again; Can a person who spits on a young, murdered woman have any humanity in him? And finally; given what happened to the body of that girl, do you think ordinary people in Gaza support Hamas?

Horrific, yet many still believe the innocence of the people of
Gaza

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

One of the girls whose body has been recovered was at the music festival where it seems she was murdered. Her half naked body was thrown in a truck and driven into and around Gaza. It is reported that crowds of people in Gaza stood around the truck jeering and one person spat at her. Presumably all these people were not Hamas, although they may have supported Hamas. They were showing their disrespect for the 22 year old girl who Hamas murdered.

The question was Does Israel want full scale war in the Middle East?
I would turn the question around; Does Hamas want full scale war in the Middle East? And additionally does Hamas want to look after the citizens in Gaza? And additionally again; Can a person who spits on a young, murdered woman have any humanity in him? And finally; given what happened to the body of that girl, do you think ordinary people in Gaza support Hamas?

Do I hear Hamas claiming not to represent Palestinians?
Glorianny are you saying that they claimto be protecting Palestinians and were doing so in October?

Callistemon21

Glorianny

Palestinians are not attacking Israel, Hamas is.
On the other hand Israel is abusing Palestinians.

The people of Gaza voted for Hamas.
The people of Israel voted for Netanyahu's government.

The last Gaza election was in 2006. Around 50% of the 2 million+ population are under 20 which means they have never had a vote. So hardly representative.

Glorianny

Palestinians are not attacking Israel, Hamas is.
On the other hand Israel is abusing Palestinians.

The people of Gaza voted for Hamas.
The people of Israel voted for Netanyahu's government.

The news that three bodies have been discovered of Israeli citizens taken into Gaza on 07/10 is very sad news, but will nonetheless be welcomed by the families so that their family members can be laid to rest. They were found in one of the tunnels by Israeli soldiers. This tends to suggest that Hamas are indeed keeping the bodies of hostages who have died, but for what purpose, I don’t know.