Does Israel want full scale war in the Middle East?

I think people are very aware of how this could create an escalation to this war, however I find your remarks regarding "Muslim immigrants" offensive, an example of Islamaphobia and completely irrelevant.

Wyllow3

I think I'd need a lot more analysis of what you mean before I'd care to comment. Just using the term, "muslim fundamentalist countries" is not one I find helpful or accurate.

Or the use of "the Jews" as a "all lumped together" as in fact there are many different strands to this culture

While not all of Afghans or Iranians have an extreme view of Islam the governments do and anyone who disagrees faces violence imprisonment or death. Hamas and all the other terrorist groups also don’t tolerate dissent

We do fear Islam in the UK and security services put a great deal of effort into suppressing attacks, if there was not that protection there would probably be terrorist events every week.

I think we should all be very concerned about the knock-on effect here in Europe. If only previous governments had stopped to consider the results of their actions when they opened the doors to all the Muslim migrants. It may be brushed over by the news sources, but there is already a lot of hostility towards those who support Israel...not just the Jews but white Britons.
There are plenty of people in the West just waiting for an excuse to launch major terrorist attacks.

I think I'd need a lot more analysis of what you mean before I'd care to comment. Just using the term, "muslim fundamentalist countries" is not one I find helpful or accurate.

Or the use of "the Jews" as a "all lumped together" as in fact there are many different strands to this culture

It is very difficult. Those Muslim fundamentalist countries are at a different stage of civilisation and a unpredictably dangerous, hence the use of the suffix “phobia” in terms such as Islamophobia. When did anyone hear the term Methodistphobia, Buddophobia, Hinduphobia. The only use of the suffix, meaning “fear of” seems to be associated with Islam.
In respect of the Jews, the commonly used phrase is Anti-Semitism putting the emphasis on victim rather than fear provoked. Need for further comment?

Thank you foxie for your insightful and explanatory assessment of the factions within Israel. I have learned a lot this evening from your post and it illustrated the situation and potential schisms really well.

Russia is Iran's greatest (possibly only) ally. This is all Putin's doing and I feel he's laughing all the way to a third world war.

I’m currently in Paris and so I only have BBC World News, and it doesn’t appear to be reporting any further action for which I am relieved.
I think Foxie is correct in her assessment of the situation with regard to secular Jews and Hasidic Jews in Israel. The Hasidic Jews have large families, do not integrate into society, and are allowed to not serve in the IDF. Whilst secular (or religious but not Hasidic Jews) are fighting in the IDF, including some of these young people who were killed or taken hostage on 7/10, but meanwhile Hasidic Jews are allowed to ‘draft dodge,’ I think there will be less tolerance by those whose children are doing fighting. Nonetheless there is still very strong feeling about the lack of the return of the hostages, and so I think at the moment, feelings will be mixed, especially after the attack from Iran. I cannot see how, as there are gradually more Hasidic Jews, and possibly fewer secular Jews, Israel will be able to defend itself. Israel was supposed to be the one place in the world where Jews would be safe, and it doesn’t feel like a safe place at the moment to me, and will possibly be less safe in the future.

ronib

Beirut has been rebuilt many times….

Yes, successive empires, mandates etc etc.

The Paris of the Middle East.
I imagine that was before there were a lot of skyscrapers.

Beirut has been rebuilt many times….

I remember Beirut was known as the Paris of the east. Think it was Paris, but whichever, it was seen as a western style destination worth visiting

Iam64

Friends who
Lived in Iran/Persia before the Islamic talk about what a progressive, relatively liberal society they enjoyed
Foxie’s earlier post detailing birth rates and exodus of secular Jews makes me wonder if that’s the future

Sadly I think that's the way it's going. Afghanistan used to be pretty liberal, Kabul in the 60's and 70's was a real blend of the modern and the traditional, Afghan girls wore mini skirts and/or headscarves, went to university and night clubs although there was poverty and a lack of education in the countryside. This is also a potential problem for Israel. The ultra religious are much less likely to have completed a high school education and continue to gain a university degree. I have read that only 3% of Haradim believe in evolution. Israel really needs to keep it's secular Jews.

While there are some terrible regiemes the Taliban in Afghanistan are the worst given it’s the only country in the world where girls are not allowed to go to school. Now that’s what I call oppression of women.

Katie59

I think Israel has enough on its plate with Gaza and Hezbolah and will finish the job in Gaza before it starts a direct confrontation with Iran, Iran will I’m sure increase its support for Hezbolah and the Houthis and make it more difficult for Israel.
With the support of its allies willing to deter Iran from further attacks, for now both sides will pause but don’t rule out anything.
There are many countries in the Middle East and elsewhere that would like to see Irans support for terrorist groups stop, every country in the region has extremist groups they have to control, it’s not just Israel. Even if the Jews were driven out that would not end terrorism in the area, all the “moderate” governments would be even more vulnerable to Irans Muslim fundamental policies. A moderate government in Iran would reduce the hostilities in the whole region

I agree, if only the detested regime in Iran could be replaced, not only would they stop funding terrorist groups but be so much better for its own citizens,especially for women.
It’s the worst regime in the world, and that’s saying something.

Before Israel started annexing Gaza and the West Bank, in 1967, pushing Palestinians out of homes and work, I was 100% backing Israel as a haven post WW2. Since then it has become very complex indeed -

"All 2.2 million people in Gaza do not have enough food to eat, with half of the population on the brink of starvation and famine projected to arrive in the north “anytime between mid-March and May 2024,” according to the Integrated Food Security Phase Classification "

- this has not been solved by recent events but my sympathies still embrace the innocents caught up in events - wherever they live.

Ziplok self defence is not tit for tat

I think you are oversimplifying an incredibly complex history Urms including the opposition within Israel for what their own government is doing.

Friends who
Lived in Iran/Persia before the Islamic talk about what a progressive, relatively liberal society they enjoyed
Foxie’s earlier post detailing birth rates and exodus of secular Jews makes me wonder if that’s the future

Blimey, when you look at a map Israel has a small safe strip for Jewish people. Look at the huge sizes of all the hateful Middle East countries surrounding them. It’s quite scary. Israel is so brave. Stay strong Israel.

Yes, they were Annie, but we don’t want to see yet more innocent people die, and they will if this continual tit for tat goes on.

Foxie thank you for the insights that show that we are often talking about the actions of a regime not all its peoples.

Becuase I used to know a young Iranian artist (a woman) who was part of an opposition - when it was safe to do so - I thought I'd look up its progress (ie calls for democracy) as recently as possible

www.iranintl.com/en/202302109922#

I don't think the West as in mainly the US atm has the will to put people on the ground any more as it used to - directly involve itself in the whole region.

Most recent thoughts are on the horrors of the arms industry- and not just the "official" supplies. sigh.

Innocent people were killed October 7th last year

Biden has urged Israel to take this attack as a failure by Iran and a win for Israel and not to escalate this into a war.
Israel is much stronger than Iran with powerful allies so Iran's knee jerk reaction could be their downfall.
I hope Israel don't seek revenge as many innocent people will be killed and there has been enough bloodshed.

It's absolutely 100% clear that there's no support, even from those countries that helped defend Israel, for a further escalation but the right wingers in Netanyahu's government do want it despite many in Israel who definitely don't. Have a look at the Israeli press, you would expect it to be full of jingoism and it isn't. That's why I wrote my previous post, a small country with a small population needs to speak with one voice and it doesn't and it needs to keep it's friends not try their patience.

hang on. Lets do a reality check.

Hamas attacked Israel out of the blue, concentrating on soft targets; families, homes, youngsters at a music festival.

Israel retaliates, I have no argument with those who say that their military response was far beyond anything acceptable.

Throughout the whole of this conflict it has been clear that Hamas are a front for Iran. Hamas and Hezbullah are just glove puppets with the Iranian hand inside manipulating them and funding them. Until now the Iranians have been behaving like cowards hiding behind Hamas and the population of Gaza, happy to see them killed with impunity, while protecting their own pathetic skins.

Israel was hamstrung that the country could not attack the real country running the war. It chose to attack the Iranian embassy in Syria. Iran then came out of hiding and launched an OTT attack on Israel in response to the bombing of the embassy just as Israel over responded to the 7 October attacks, vile though they were.

So now we are at last clear who the war is between. israel and Iran.

A plafie on both their houses.
All one can say is that at last Iran has come into the open and I hope the fiture of this conflict