Does Israel want full scale war in the Middle East?

Excellent post Candelle, as always on this subject.
I suspect though, that you and some others are banging your head on a brick wall, so to speak.
The anti Israel/anti IDF/anti Jewish attitude will almost certainly continue from some members of Gransnet.

growstuff

Katie590

maddyone

Months ago, Hamas offered to exchange hostages for Palestinians being held in Israeli jails

Are you actually supporting Hamas? This comment suggests you are.

Hamas wanted to exchange innocent Israeli hostages for criminal Palestinians at the rate of 130 (approximately) Israelis for around 1000 Palestinian prisoners, 100 of whom are serving life sentences.

The current ceasefire talks are close to stalemate neither side close to agreement, a great many Palestinians are leaving Rafah despite the dangers. Israel is preparing for the final assault on Hamas.
Then it will be a case of occupying Gaza to ensure security so that Hamas does not become active again.

So you envisage Israeli occupation of Gaza? That's not what Netanyahu has announced publicly.

Yes I do, someone has got to ensure security, it can’t be a free for all so that Hamas or some other terrorist group returns.
Israel ensures security of the West Bank it will have to do the same with Gaza.

Who do you think should do it, I don’t think the promise from Hamas not to rearm is going to be acceptable.

To Glorianny, Growstuff and others (you know who you are) who permanently criticize Israel and speak of a genocide in Gaza, shame on you. You are not analytical, do not appear to understand the word genocide, and are blatantly pro- Hamas, whether you say you are or not, by constantly telling us how Israel is waging war on the Palestinian people. Israel is reluctantly waging war on Hamas who attacked Israel and are embedded throughout Gaza.

You write of women and children being killed. Of course they are: Israel-Gaza are at war. However, do the IDF go around only targeting women and children? This is what you say, obviously ridiculous.

The poor Palestinian population whom, although many voted for Hamas, have had little choice in where they try to live. Please ask yourself why? Have you ever stopped to ask why? To actually think?

Hamas had planned their attack on Israel on October 7th 2023. They had all their weaponry in apartment blocks, obviously full of their population; in schools, hospitals, mosques and underground.

Did, however, they plan for feeding their population?

Have supplies of water and temporary housing for their population?

Extra medical supplies for their population?

No. The people were left for slaughter as Israel hunted those that had/wanted to kill them. Israel cannot be blamed for going after the killers or finding the arms that Hamas hold. I have previously explained that Israel actually leafleted area that were to be bombed, telling people to leave. How many attacking powers would do that?

Hamas played a blinder in PR terms, as Israel was in a cleft-stick: if they hunted terrorists in an apartment block or hospital, massive casualties would occur. If they didn't, Hamas would attack again and again and casualties would occur. This played exactly in to Hamas hands and I commend their ingenuity but eventually, when people realise that the Hamas rationale is purely and simply to wipe Israel off the face of the earth (as in their 'manifesto') they will lose the public vote.

I have just seen recent population figures for Israel: 73.2 percent identify as Jewish, 21.1 percent as Arab and the remaining 5.7 percent classified as “others”.

Could you please show me any nearby country where over 20% of the population is Jewish, with synagogues to worship in? I doubt it. Yet, poor tolerant Israel lets a quarter of their population worship in the way they want.

Incidentally, Palestine, or officially “Provincia Syria Palaestina,” was a name invented by the Romans in 135 CE as a replacement for “Judea,” in an effort to eliminate all expressions of Jewry in the region. Jews were in the area, there was no Palestine until much later but one would never know that from the press. Israel was not originally Palestinian land.

As far as I am aware (and I doubt that you know any more than do I) Israel has no intention to occupy Gaza. They would not have been in Gaza at all except for...... oh, yes, October 7th.

In answer to the original question, no, I do not think Israel would want a war with Iran. Are we all aware of the relative sizes of each country? Mice and Men.

I understand that Israel has, in the past, been suspected of sabotaging Iranian nuclear war capability - the only power brave enough to do so which just... may save all of us.

Katie590

maddyone

Months ago, Hamas offered to exchange hostages for Palestinians being held in Israeli jails

Are you actually supporting Hamas? This comment suggests you are.

Hamas wanted to exchange innocent Israeli hostages for criminal Palestinians at the rate of 130 (approximately) Israelis for around 1000 Palestinian prisoners, 100 of whom are serving life sentences.

The current ceasefire talks are close to stalemate neither side close to agreement, a great many Palestinians are leaving Rafah despite the dangers. Israel is preparing for the final assault on Hamas.
Then it will be a case of occupying Gaza to ensure security so that Hamas does not become active again.

So you envisage Israeli occupation of Gaza? That's not what Netanyahu has announced publicly.

maddyone

It’s to do with security! It’s obvious! I think the murder of 1200 people and the taking of hostages tells us there’s a massive security issue around Gaza. But there’s none so blind as those who will not see.

Who says it’s to do with oil?

What is blindingly obvious is that destroying Gaza won't provide security. Unless Israel wants to airbrush Gazans and Gaza out of existence, it is going to have an immediate neighbour which hates it - with a justifiable reason. This war has provided even more reason for young Gazans to sign up to Hamas to defend their territory. The hate will continue for generations.

If Israel wants to ensure its own security, it needs to strengthen its borders. I still find it unbelievable that Hamas was able to breach the border so easily, especially as Israel spends a fortune on security. Israel has known about the tunnels for years. There are also rumours that it knew something was being planned. Maybe it's true that it thought the West Bank was the main threat, considering settlers are continuing to grab land. Whatever the reason, there was a serious breakdown in communications and strategy by the IDF, which Israel needs to address. Destroying Gaza won't provide security for anyone.

Philippa60

I'll recognize their Nakba day when they recognize our Independence Day (today).
How about that?!

That sounds extremely childish. How about recognizing that there has been wrongdoing on both sides?

I don’t condone the violence that’s continuing on either side.
Do you ever think about what if Hamas hadn’t committed the atrocity last year and committed to future violence to achieve their aim?

But it isn't their Independence Day is it? They really don't have any Independence do they?
On the other hand Nakba Day is entirely the responsibility of Israel. A state that was built by terrorists on terrorism.
Which is ironic to say the least.

I'll recognize their Nakba day when they recognize our Independence Day (today).
How about that?!

maddyone

^Months ago, Hamas offered to exchange hostages for Palestinians being held in Israeli jails^

Are you actually supporting Hamas? This comment suggests you are.

Hamas wanted to exchange innocent Israeli hostages for criminal Palestinians at the rate of 130 (approximately) Israelis for around 1000 Palestinian prisoners, 100 of whom are serving life sentences.

Palestinians are routinely imprisoned in Israel without trial.
It's called Administrative Detention a term inherited from the British.
Here's the story of one person (still a child) released in the last exchange
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67600015

Philippa60

Glorianny, when you write: "Israel has long been the Middle Eastern country without any oil"
Do you mean oil, or natural gas?
See the link: www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel/economy/1685546870-israel-discovers-new-significant-gas-field-off-its-coast
Israel does not need Gaza's field.
Israel would be delighted for Gaza to focus on developing Gaza for the sake of its people's welfare and prosperity, instead of launching constant terror attacks against us

Then why does it restrict the provision of fuel and water Phillipa60?
That restricts growth.
No country can prosper or develop without the ability to trade and deal with outside authorities. Gaza has never been able to do so successfully partly because of the fuel restrictions but also because of border controls.

Tomorrow is Nakba Day will you be recognising it?

Glorianny, when you write: "Israel has long been the Middle Eastern country without any oil"
Do you mean oil, or natural gas?
See the link: www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel/economy/1685546870-israel-discovers-new-significant-gas-field-off-its-coast
Israel does not need Gaza's field.
Israel would be delighted for Gaza to focus on developing Gaza for the sake of its people's welfare and prosperity, instead of launching constant terror attacks against us

maddyone

^Months ago, Hamas offered to exchange hostages for Palestinians being held in Israeli jails^

Are you actually supporting Hamas? This comment suggests you are.

Hamas wanted to exchange innocent Israeli hostages for criminal Palestinians at the rate of 130 (approximately) Israelis for around 1000 Palestinian prisoners, 100 of whom are serving life sentences.

The current ceasefire talks are close to stalemate neither side close to agreement, a great many Palestinians are leaving Rafah despite the dangers. Israel is preparing for the final assault on Hamas.
Then it will be a case of occupying Gaza to ensure security so that Hamas does not become active again.

It’s to do with security! It’s obvious! I think the murder of 1200 people and the taking of hostages tells us there’s a massive security issue around Gaza. But there’s none so blind as those who will not see.

Who says it’s to do with oil?

Months ago, Hamas offered to exchange hostages for Palestinians being held in Israeli jails

Are you actually supporting Hamas? This comment suggests you are.

Hamas wanted to exchange innocent Israeli hostages for criminal Palestinians at the rate of 130 (approximately) Israelis for around 1000 Palestinian prisoners, 100 of whom are serving life sentences.

So how does killing so many women and children make Israel more secure? This war will simply recruit more to the side of Hamas. Those whose families are dead, the children orphaned, those who see the slaughter. They may not be active today. Israel may think it has won. But the hatred will remain and violence will break out again.
But my bet is Israel will make a corridor to the coast, in order to access the oil. They were never going to let the people of Gaza have it were they? Israel has long been the Middle Eastern country without any oil.

maddyone

No, it’s nothing to do with oil. It’s to do with security.

Says who?

Katie590

growstuff

maddyone

How were the Israelis supposed to get the hostages out of Gaza without doing exactly what you don’t like them doing? Did you think that Hamas would sit down round the table and agree to hand them over? That was was never going to happen because members of Hamas are hardened terrorists. It might have slipped your mind but terrorists don’t sit down with a cup of tea and negotiate nicely.

Do you honestly think they're going to get many hostages back?

Months ago, Hamas offered to exchange hostages for Palestinians being held in Israeli jails.

It isn’t just a hostage swap Hamas wanted a ceasefire and withdrawl, a month ago Hamas said there couldn’t be a swap because they couldn’t find the hostages.

That's not accurate.

Hamas has told international mediators – which include Qatar and Egypt - it does not have 40 living hostages who match those criteria for release.

Israel wanted women and old people to be released. Hamas said it didn't have 40 in those categories.

No, it’s nothing to do with oil. It’s to do with security.

Hamas in the first hostage exchange were willing to carry negotiating but wanted to discuss older people rather than some of the women who had been in the army. Israel refused

In the latest negotiations Hamas agreed to a gradual exchange. Israel refused apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-gaza-ceasefire-negotiations-7cec005ccd59dbd817ef9614a8611ca4.

Why is Israel intent on destroying Gaza? Nothing to do with the oil is it?

growstuff

maddyone

How were the Israelis supposed to get the hostages out of Gaza without doing exactly what you don’t like them doing? Did you think that Hamas would sit down round the table and agree to hand them over? That was was never going to happen because members of Hamas are hardened terrorists. It might have slipped your mind but terrorists don’t sit down with a cup of tea and negotiate nicely.

Do you honestly think they're going to get many hostages back?

Months ago, Hamas offered to exchange hostages for Palestinians being held in Israeli jails.

It isn’t just a hostage swap Hamas wanted a ceasefire and withdrawl, a month ago Hamas said there couldn’t be a swap because they couldn’t find the hostages.

maddyone

How were the Israelis supposed to get the hostages out of Gaza without doing exactly what you don’t like them doing? Did you think that Hamas would sit down round the table and agree to hand them over? That was was never going to happen because members of Hamas are hardened terrorists. It might have slipped your mind but terrorists don’t sit down with a cup of tea and negotiate nicely.

Do you honestly think they're going to get many hostages back?

Months ago, Hamas offered to exchange hostages for Palestinians being held in Israeli jails.

By the way, friendly fire is a well known phenomenon in every war.
Sad, but true.

How were the Israelis supposed to get the hostages out of Gaza without doing exactly what you don’t like them doing? Did you think that Hamas would sit down round the table and agree to hand them over? That was was never going to happen because members of Hamas are hardened terrorists. It might have slipped your mind but terrorists don’t sit down with a cup of tea and negotiate nicely.

maddyone

^Their welfare was never a high priority of the Israeli government in this war.^

That is not true, it’s simply what you want to be true.
Sadly, there are always casualties by ‘friendly fire’ in war. This happens in every single war.
You are simply using this very sad incident as a way of berating and criticising the Israeli government.

No it's quite obvious the welfare of the hostages has never been of primary importance to the Israeli government. That's why their relatives and friends have been demonstrating.
www.timesofisrael.com/police-arrest-3-protesters-in-tel-aviv-as-weekly-rallies-call-for-hostage-deal/#:~:text=Police%20detained%20some%2030%20protesters,were
It surprises me that although we are urged to remember 7/10 the situation in Israel seems to have slipped the notice of some.