France imposing a fine for no-shows at GP surgeries.

Cancer treatment

Almost everyone has a phone or internet access these days so cancelling an appointment is not difficult, bring on the fines

Have you tried to get through to some of these places by phone to cancel?

Or they send you a "reminder" text with no option to cancel or reply? You have to do it on the phone and then wonder why people dong show up.

I usually cancel by using the Patient Access or NHS apps but not everyone has it.

What I don't understand is why so many appointments (apparently!) need to be cancelled.

kate1949

CoolCoco

Almost everyone has a phone or internet access these days so cancelling an appointment is not difficult, bring on the fines.

My issue with that is the length of time it takes to get through to anybody if you try ringing the surgery for any reason at all never mind cancel an appointment.
After I’ve listened to the repeated, do you know you can make an appointment by using Patches or the NHS app and it’s so much more efficient than ringing?

I hang on to be told that I’m 10 in the queue. I’m always 10th in the queue And they have multiple people manning the phones.
The whole operation to get through usually takes at least 25 minutes.
Last time I tried to do something on the Internet – changing my prescription because the tablets were having an adverse effect on me, it turned out that the Doctor who would be reviewing my prescription request was on holiday.

Thank you Baggs. Coming from you, those flowers mean a lot. Fortunately my husband is now in remission.

I'm all for fining people. Anything that is free is abused.

Baggs

I think dentists charge for no shows.

private dentists (and hairdressers) often say in their T and C that they reserve the right to charge for no shows. I'd be concerned that the mechanism for charging would eat up the charge, also what do you do about people who can't pay? There would need to be an appeals procedure and so on. I do like the idea but have concerns about actually doing it and think that the NHS generally (and GP's, who are not part of the NHS but are contractors, ) needs to get its house in order first.

My DH has had various outpatient appointments. During the past year patient transport has not turned up and he was classed as a no show. This meant he had to wait at least another 6-8 weeks for another appointment and in the meantime his complaint has got worse!

Baggs

What I don't understand is why so many appointments (apparently!) need to be cancelled.

The reason I've sometimes had to cancel appointments is because they have to be made so far in advance that something else then crops up.

Recently I had a physio appointment at the GP, which was made six weeks previously. By chance I then had a diabetic eye screening and a hospital cancer appointment come through on the same day. The timings meant I couldn't attend all three, so I cancelled (changed) the one which meant I could attend the other two.

greenlady102

Baggs

I think dentists charge for no shows.

private dentists (and hairdressers) often say in their T and C that they reserve the right to charge for no shows. I'd be concerned that the mechanism for charging would eat up the charge, also what do you do about people who can't pay? There would need to be an appeals procedure and so on. I do like the idea but have concerns about actually doing it and think that the NHS generally (and GP's, who are not part of the NHS but are contractors, ) needs to get its house in order first.

I agree. Gp surgeries could end up having to employ another person just to administrate no shows.

growstuff

Baggs

What I don't understand is why so many appointments (apparently!) need to be cancelled.

The reason I've sometimes had to cancel appointments is because they have to be made so far in advance that something else then crops up.

Recently I had a physio appointment at the GP, which was made six weeks previously. By chance I then had a diabetic eye screening and a hospital cancer appointment come through on the same day. The timings meant I couldn't attend all three, so I cancelled (changed) the one which meant I could attend the other two.

Perfectly reasonable, growstuff, but I was really meaning the appointments that don't get cancelled for valid reasons but where the patient simply doesn't turn up, what urms (I think it was) designated "DNAs* (did not attend).

There will be some of these cases where it is not the patient's fault but I gather that mostly they just can't be bothered or forget because they don't need it any more.

MissAdventure

In theory it makes perfect sense, but I think in practice it would cost more to look into complaints, mistakes, misinformation and general f* ups.

This

I expect there rea Baggs but there will also be cases (like I had once) when I'd been booked for an appointment I genuinely didn't know about. I can't have known because I was actually in with the nurse having a blood test at the same time. When I checked my online patient record I showed up as a DNA in the statistics.

If I were to be automatically fined for that, I'd have to appeal and somebody human would have to review the records. Undoubtedly, it would be shown that I wasn't a DNA after all, but it would take 20-30 minutes (probably) of somebody's time to check the records, cancel the fine and inform me. Even at minimum wage (with on costs) that's probably £10.

I think we should try something though. A trial run of 3 months perhaps in a few GP surgeries to determine whether it would be cost effective rolling it out further. Surely the NHS cannot just continue to haemorrhage time slots (aka finances).

I know hairdressers charge for non attendance, but they seem to manage their lists more effectively.

Perhaps they should help run NHS England MissA! They’d probably do a better job than Amanda Pritchard …

We could all get a wash and blow dry at the same time!

"Going anywhere nice this year?"

"Well, I'm not sure yet"

"Well, you'd better hurry up and decide, with the way your blood tests came out.
Just a bit off the back, was it, with a fringe?"

It's a little while since I was in the French system, but to my knowledge everything is done pretty much online and everything is centralised. You can book an appointment on Doctolib, you can also cancel the said appointment on Doctolib. Simple. You only actually have to talk to the individual surgery if your appointment is less than four hours away.

A couple of years ago I received a letter to attend for my Covid booster. The letter arrived at lunch time and the appointment was for 9am that day.

I phoned the number on the letter to explain and apologise for my no show. I waited in a queue of 40 odd till I was finally no 1. I apologised and explained that the letter arrived 4 hours after the appointment time.

She said don’t worry this happens all the time. I asked her to take my name and record on my records that I had a valid reason for not turning up as I didn’t want it to appear that I just hadn’t bothered. She refused .

Urmstongran

I think we should try something though. A trial run of 3 months perhaps in a few GP surgeries to determine whether it would be cost effective rolling it out further. Surely the NHS cannot just continue to haemorrhage time slots (aka finances).

Who do you think should administer it? Don't you think GP surgery are already stretched enough?

MissAdventure

I know hairdressers charge for non attendance, but they seem to manage their lists more effectively.

They see fewer people for far less complex reasons.

Urmstongran

Perhaps they should help run NHS England MissA! They’d probably do a better job than Amanda Pritchard …

Have you ever work shadowed Ms Pritchard?

Joseann

It's a little while since I was in the French system, but to my knowledge everything is done pretty much online and everything is centralised. You can book an appointment on Doctolib, you can also cancel the said appointment on Doctolib. Simple. You only actually have to talk to the individual surgery if your appointment is less than four hours away.

I think there's a clue there. GP surgeries in the UK are private businesses and seem to buy into different systems. The NHS app doesn't seem very well co-ordinated with whichever systems the surgeries operate. Maybe if there were a truly nation system it would work more efficiently.

For those who like a bit of fun with languages, if you don't show up on a date or stand someone up, in French, it's called "poser un lapin". 🐇
The penalty for missing a doctor's appointment will be called a "rabbit tax" or "taxe lapin!" 🐰
Only in France! 🤣