France imposing a fine for no-shows at GP surgeries.

*legally
*for
Clumsy fingers typos on phone to blame!

One point first of all: NHS dentists cannot kegally charge for missed appointments although they can refuse to see you. Private dentists can and do charge for missed appointments. Discretion is used clearly, if an unexpected situation/emergency arises.
I think that a fining fir missed appointments system would be difficult where no money changes hands at the point of delivery.
Interesting point: DH was not there to take a call from the GP surgery yesterday as he had another appointment. He did wait beyond the window of time given him by the receptionist. The GP whose call I took, denied ever being given an end time. Another appointment has had to be made. So is that a missed appointment or not?

Charging for appointments and then claiming back a % is the only way NHS will survive. Particularly if you get to choose the provider. Might be outside our comfort zone but it is a much better system. We should take some responsibility for looking after our own health. We cannot run a modern health service -which we all demand - on out of date principles. Things have to change if they are to stay the same the stark truth is.

It’s not always the patient’s fault. Dh was once sent to the wrong clinic for a minor surgical procedure. It was at least half an hour’s drive from the one he should have attended.

Then a BiL who’d had oncology appts. for several years, had an appt letter sent to an address he’d left 17 years previously! Other letters had been sent to the right address, so goodness knows why they hadn’t deleted the old one. Luckily the current owners forwarded it, just in time.
Disorganised/chaotic admin counts for quite a few no shows, I bet.

I’ve also heard of several cases where despite relatives pleading with NHS admin NOT to do it, appt. letters are sent solely to someone with dementia, who not only will never remember, but will v likely hide the letter or throw it away.

They have begged for duplicate letters to be sent to them, too, but if they don’t already have health and welfare P of A, they have been told that it’s not possible, because of ‘patient confidentiality’. I imagine this could account for a lot of wasted appts.

My son in law went for an operation and he was the only person out of 5who turned up So huge cost to the National health .On the other side I had to cancel taking my ADHD son to see the Consultant. A few miles away and telephoned the hospital and cancelled it Went to the GP another time and he was on about missing the appointment and was rude about it It was the receptionist who didn’t do her job properly this time

Having worked in a surgery this will
Have to be manned with care. Sometimes a receptionist might forget to cancel the appt through doing multi jobs at once and there are those that phone to cancel an early morning appt and can’t get through because the lines are busy. I recently cancelled a hospital appt via the text link they sent me only later to find out it wasn’t done - had I be fined I would not have been one bit happy and what proof would I have had

Needs lots of planning before going live

Our GP used to have an online appointment booking system so it was easy to make, cancel or change an appointment. Now if you need to cancel it's a telephone queue hassle. The online booking was taken down during covid and they never reinstated it.

To miss an appointment with your GP, you have to have been lucky enough to manage to get one in the first place!

Grantanow

Before creating yet another bureaucracy to run a fining system it would be a good idea to ensure everyone could get a GP appointment in person and not be fobbed off with a paramedic, associate or a telephone interview.

They might be more likely to get this if there were fewer no-shows.

"No shows" should be fined at least £20.00 for wasting GPs time.

Before creating yet another bureaucracy to run a fining system it would be a good idea to ensure everyone could get a GP appointment in person and not be fobbed off with a paramedic, associate or a telephone interview.

Dickens

growstuff

HomeAgain123

Our GP has a sign up … last week 47 which I think is horrendous. My neighbour had an ambulance drive her home after an operation about 50 miles …. Lives with family of 3 drivers extended family all drive about 6 cars turned up that afternoon for visit 😡

How did your neighbour manage that? When I was in hospital after a heart attack, I was told that transport couldn't be arranged. I lived alone and didn't have the contact details of anybody who could have given me a lift (I hadn't planned to have a heart attack and be admitted to hospital). The hospital was about 40 miles away from where I live; there's no public transport and I wouldn't have been allowed to use public transport anyway.

Your hospital could and should have arranged some form of transport growstuff. There is no absolute criteria on who qualifies. Also, St John's Ambulance have volunteer car drivers for those kinds of travel needs, and hospitals are at liberty to contact them. There might also be other volunteer services in your area.

I understand departments are busy, but shame on them for pitchforking you out like that. When I'd been admitted to A&E a few months back, the department - though exceptionally busy and (as usual) understaffed - still made the effort to arrange transport for me because my situation re transport was similar to yours.

I hope you are fully recovered.

Dickens It was Sunday afternoon/evening. I had been taken into hospital as an emergency. I didn't have any contact details with me - of volunteer drivers or anybody else. Apparently hospital transport isn't provided except in exceptional circumstances. That's what I was told and I later looked it up and the nurse who told me was correct. In the end, my daughter, who had driven 200 miles to visit me, delayed her return home, even though she was due to start work early the next morning.

Dickens

MissAdventure

What of they had been unable to get to see a gp, though?

A lot of people won't phone 111 because they will almost always advise A and E.

A lot of people won't phone 111 because they will almost always advise A and E.

I have used 111 three times in total, once for my OH and twice for me.

All three calls ended up with advice to go to A&E.

I think the triage process is unreliable, and leads to an increase in people attending A&E.

Ancillary support is necessary, obviously - but what most appear to need is to be able to see a doctor primarily.

The 111 staff are pleasant and helpful, but 111 is a sticking-plaster.

The NHS needs more doctors and nurses, and it - the organisation itself - needs re-vamping, adequate funding, and then left alone to get on with the job, instead of the constant tinkering of successive governments. Usually short-term tinkering which does nothing to solve the fundamental problem.

I have used 111, first time, AE, due to fast AF. Other two times,put me through to emergency dental, and a GP out of hours center, where this "dr," in small letters deliberately, told me to go home and drink some soup, shocked to my core. My friend and I were horrified, just walked out.Whatever is this country coming to.

I used to book a room at GP surgeries to assess people referred to me for assessment. This meant I went all over the place and visited many surgeries. There always used to be a big sign up in reception with the number of failed appointments that month. These were often in the hundreds. So yes, like dentists, charge for failed appointments. They not only waste staff time but take up time that other patients could have had.

I think French people probably consult their doctor more times per year than we do in the UK. Of course, chronically ill patients need the appointments, but healthy French people aren't averse to popping along for a consultation every few months. Maybe that's why the more rendez-vous booked, the more likely to missing the appointment?

growstuff

HomeAgain123

Our GP has a sign up … last week 47 which I think is horrendous. My neighbour had an ambulance drive her home after an operation about 50 miles …. Lives with family of 3 drivers extended family all drive about 6 cars turned up that afternoon for visit 😡

How did your neighbour manage that? When I was in hospital after a heart attack, I was told that transport couldn't be arranged. I lived alone and didn't have the contact details of anybody who could have given me a lift (I hadn't planned to have a heart attack and be admitted to hospital). The hospital was about 40 miles away from where I live; there's no public transport and I wouldn't have been allowed to use public transport anyway.

Your hospital could and should have arranged some form of transport growstuff. There is no absolute criteria on who qualifies. Also, St John's Ambulance have volunteer car drivers for those kinds of travel needs, and hospitals are at liberty to contact them. There might also be other volunteer services in your area.

I understand departments are busy, but shame on them for pitchforking you out like that. When I'd been admitted to A&E a few months back, the department - though exceptionally busy and (as usual) understaffed - still made the effort to arrange transport for me because my situation re transport was similar to yours.

I hope you are fully recovered.

MissAdventure

In theory it makes perfect sense, but I think in practice it would cost more to look into complaints, mistakes, misinformation and general f* ups.

Just think of yet more admin and chasing people and the expense of this...its a different system, set up differently, lets just get ours right.

Rondoallaturc

Brilliant idea. Most people at doctor surgeries do not need to be there.

Most people at doctor surgeries do not need to be there.

How can you possibly know that?

"Most people" is an awful lot of people, and you've just diagnosed them all.

I suppose you believe also that people call an ambulance for a broken finger nail? That's another popular trope...

Freya5

Mamie

Freya5

An interesting take on problems with Health system in France. Most GP practices in France are private concerns .
Why do we always have to make excuses to prevent any change.

That is not quite accurate to say they are "private concerns" in the UK sense, the relationship between the Assurance Maladie, the regional health services and the local practitioners is much more complex than that. You do pay the GP directly, but some of their funding is central. Other specialists have their own premises, so (for example) I find my own dermatologist, visit her in her clinic and pay her directly, then get the money repaid into my account.. When she refers me on to the hospital for surgery no money changes hands, it is all managed centrally. It is complicated, but you get used to it.
As to the shortages, some specialisms are difficult and some areas of the country find it hard to get GPs. We can always get a same day GP appointment, but might wait three or four days for our own doctor.

Thank you for the explanation, my family in Germany have similar health service. Think we should be looking at different methods of providing g health care, as I say there are always excuses as to why we shouldn't. Everyone in Germany has access, when required, to a Dr, ring up appointment given. No fobbing off by receptionists as to why you should see someone else and not a GP.

I'm afraid that's not true, especially in cities, unless the private health insurance is paid.

HomeAgain123

Our GP has a sign up … last week 47 which I think is horrendous. My neighbour had an ambulance drive her home after an operation about 50 miles …. Lives with family of 3 drivers extended family all drive about 6 cars turned up that afternoon for visit 😡

How did your neighbour manage that? When I was in hospital after a heart attack, I was told that transport couldn't be arranged. I lived alone and didn't have the contact details of anybody who could have given me a lift (I hadn't planned to have a heart attack and be admitted to hospital). The hospital was about 40 miles away from where I live; there's no public transport and I wouldn't have been allowed to use public transport anyway.

Rondoallaturc

Brilliant idea. Most people at doctor surgeries do not need to be there.

So why do I get so many texts asking me to make appointments? And follow up texts if I don't?

Brilliant idea. Most people at doctor surgeries do not need to be there.

MissAdventure

What of they had been unable to get to see a gp, though?

A lot of people won't phone 111 because they will almost always advise A and E.

A lot of people won't phone 111 because they will almost always advise A and E.

I have used 111 three times in total, once for my OH and twice for me.

All three calls ended up with advice to go to A&E.

I think the triage process is unreliable, and leads to an increase in people attending A&E.

Ancillary support is necessary, obviously - but what most appear to need is to be able to see a doctor primarily.

The 111 staff are pleasant and helpful, but 111 is a sticking-plaster.

The NHS needs more doctors and nurses, and it - the organisation itself - needs re-vamping, adequate funding, and then left alone to get on with the job, instead of the constant tinkering of successive governments. Usually short-term tinkering which does nothing to solve the fundamental problem.

Our GP has a sign up … last week 47 which I think is horrendous. My neighbour had an ambulance drive her home after an operation about 50 miles …. Lives with family of 3 drivers extended family all drive about 6 cars turned up that afternoon for visit 😡

Mamie

Freya5

An interesting take on problems with Health system in France. Most GP practices in France are private concerns .
Why do we always have to make excuses to prevent any change.

That is not quite accurate to say they are "private concerns" in the UK sense, the relationship between the Assurance Maladie, the regional health services and the local practitioners is much more complex than that. You do pay the GP directly, but some of their funding is central. Other specialists have their own premises, so (for example) I find my own dermatologist, visit her in her clinic and pay her directly, then get the money repaid into my account.. When she refers me on to the hospital for surgery no money changes hands, it is all managed centrally. It is complicated, but you get used to it.
As to the shortages, some specialisms are difficult and some areas of the country find it hard to get GPs. We can always get a same day GP appointment, but might wait three or four days for our own doctor.

Thank you for the explanation, my family in Germany have similar health service. Think we should be looking at different methods of providing g health care, as I say there are always excuses as to why we shouldn't. Everyone in Germany has access, when required, to a Dr, ring up appointment given. No fobbing off by receptionists as to why you should see someone else and not a GP.