Brussels police ordered to attend a right wing conference attended by Braverman and Farage

Yes well said Nannashirlz I think some posters on GN live in cuckoo land.

Well said Nannashirlz.

What happened to freedom of speech or is it just selective speech we agree too. As for Nigel being far right Ive never heard such rubbish in my life for ppl slating him you clearly haven’t listened to or watched his shows. He speaks for most British people and talks a lot of sense. If he was to stand he is only one I’d definitely vote for call me far right if it makes your one side mind happy but at least I like many other don’t have our heads in the sand and can see what is happening to our country.

Namsnanny I totally agree, and JudyBloom. They should be allowed freedom of speech. Neo-liberalism is another form of totalitarianism. I do not support Farage or Braverman but I do support their right to be heard.

Well said grannygravy

Whatever happened to freedom of speech in the Western world? I might not agree with the political or other views of some people but they have a perfect right to express them in a non violent way. We hear an awful lot from left wing groups in society but anything judged ‘far right’ by those who hold power (who could themselves be judged as left leaning) is shut down without debate with the usual hysterical cries of Nazi. This is a worrying trend which flies in the face of democracy. We should be very careful of where this leading us. I for one would not like to live in a one party state; there are enough of them around the world to give us warning!

Namsnanny

Yes I object to the partisan use of the media too.

Also the use of money or government power to interfere with news coverage.

But its happening all the time, Morning Star for example isn't going to waste time printing middle ground political successes is it?

Nevertheless, it isn't cancelled because some one objects.

Free speech is actually very hard to stomach.

I suspect only those on the far left read the Morning Star, daily circulation is about 10,000 from what I could see. I wouldn’t describe it as mainstream media, would you? I’m really talking about mass media, which covers all the major news stories. I feel the same about celebrity and royal stories. I guess it is the sensational that many people like, rather than actual news.

Good post Namsnanny at 16.07

Or indeed, anyone on Gransnet would advocate putting Nigel Farage into prison for expressing his views.

I certainly don’t think Nigel Farage is advocating putting people into prison because he/they/we don’t like their views.

Thank you very much Whitewave for taking the time to explain exactly to me. I’ve often wondered what the difference is between normal conservative values and far right. I think you’re right, it’s about scapegoating others, as happened in WW2 in Germany. It was taken to it’s furthest extreme with concentration camps and gas chambers. I think I would add perhaps extremely authoritarian, so freedoms are denied, including freedom of speech. Certainly that was true in Hitler’s Germany. I have trouble though with applying that description to most countries today. They maybe right wing, or indeed left wing, but how many countries put people into concentration camps or prison because of what they have said? China certainly. Russia yes. But Israel? I don’t think so. Hungary? I don’t imagine so. Some of the countries of South America probably do, and certainly have done in the past.

MayBee70

Namsnanny

MayBee70

Casdon

The issue for me isn’t the free speech, I don’t have any problem with that. What I really object to is the media attention given to events staged and attended by people on the margins of politics. Airtime fuels them, and they don’t warrant it.

Farage is very good at using the media to get publicity for himself and people need to stop playing into his hands eg the boats on the Thames during the referendum in which Bob Geldorf got far worse publicity for highlighting Farages failings as an EU MP than Farage got for being exposed in such a way. Bit like dealing with a naughty child by ignoring bad behaviour and praising the good. Trump works in the same way.

Casdon isn't it the job of the media to report on whatever they deem interesting?

Sorry Casdon I dont have a problem with free speech

What I object to is media attention given to people on the margins of politics, they don't warrant it .....

but this is the epitome of shutting down free speech.

Free Speech for all not those some of us approve of.

MayBee70 you've listed many reasons why you don't care for NF, but they have nothing whatsoever to do with a state official using state apparatus to close down a perfectly legal conference.

Control of state depts
Repression of political opponents
Suspension of civil liberties
Not abiding by the rule of law

These are some of the characteristics of a dictatorship. Why is a democracy trying to behave in the same way?

Arn't the actions of this bureaucrat more frightening?

More scared of people using racism and xenophobia to garner support. Anyway, I just said I think they should have just ignored him instead of giving him more publicity. The rise of extreme right wing politics in Europe is imo very worrying.

Right now, I'm more worried about those who actually misuse the law.
Which ever party they belong to.

Yes I object to the partisan use of the media too.

Also the use of money or government power to interfere with news coverage.

But its happening all the time, Morning Star for example isn't going to waste time printing middle ground political successes is it?

Nevertheless, it isn't cancelled because some one objects.

Free speech is actually very hard to stomach.

Namsnammy said

‘Casdon isn't it the job of the media to report on whatever they deem interesting?

Sorry Casdon I dont have a problem with free speech

What I object to is media attention given to people on the margins of politics, they don't warrant it .....

but this is the epitome of shutting down free speech.’

The media are pushing their owners agendas Namsnammy. Free speech should not provide media fodder which distorts the lens through which the public see what is happening in their country or the world, it’s that which I object to.

Cossy

BevSec

I see your point MayBee70 although I do not know the circumstances. I live in a fishing town and there were big notices all round the harbour following the vote to leave the EU saying thank you. It was so moving.

However, many fisherman and farmers are now struggling!

As are the farmers who had huge placards in their fields telling people to vote leave, even though I believe the NUF advised them to remain. I’d like to know how things have improved for fishermen now we’ve left the EU.

BevSec

I see your point MayBee70 although I do not know the circumstances. I live in a fishing town and there were big notices all round the harbour following the vote to leave the EU saying thank you. It was so moving.

However, many fisherman and farmers are now struggling!

Namsnanny

MayBee70

Casdon

The issue for me isn’t the free speech, I don’t have any problem with that. What I really object to is the media attention given to events staged and attended by people on the margins of politics. Airtime fuels them, and they don’t warrant it.

Farage is very good at using the media to get publicity for himself and people need to stop playing into his hands eg the boats on the Thames during the referendum in which Bob Geldorf got far worse publicity for highlighting Farages failings as an EU MP than Farage got for being exposed in such a way. Bit like dealing with a naughty child by ignoring bad behaviour and praising the good. Trump works in the same way.

Casdon isn't it the job of the media to report on whatever they deem interesting?

Sorry Casdon I dont have a problem with free speech

What I object to is media attention given to people on the margins of politics, they don't warrant it .....

but this is the epitome of shutting down free speech.

Free Speech for all not those some of us approve of.

MayBee70 you've listed many reasons why you don't care for NF, but they have nothing whatsoever to do with a state official using state apparatus to close down a perfectly legal conference.

Control of state depts
Repression of political opponents
Suspension of civil liberties
Not abiding by the rule of law

These are some of the characteristics of a dictatorship. Why is a democracy trying to behave in the same way?

Arn't the actions of this bureaucrat more frightening?

More scared of people using racism and xenophobia to garner support. Anyway, I just said I think they should have just ignored him instead of giving him more publicity. The rise of extreme right wing politics in Europe is imo very worrying.

MayBee70

Casdon

The issue for me isn’t the free speech, I don’t have any problem with that. What I really object to is the media attention given to events staged and attended by people on the margins of politics. Airtime fuels them, and they don’t warrant it.

Farage is very good at using the media to get publicity for himself and people need to stop playing into his hands eg the boats on the Thames during the referendum in which Bob Geldorf got far worse publicity for highlighting Farages failings as an EU MP than Farage got for being exposed in such a way. Bit like dealing with a naughty child by ignoring bad behaviour and praising the good. Trump works in the same way.

Casdon isn't it the job of the media to report on whatever they deem interesting?

Sorry Casdon I dont have a problem with free speech

What I object to is media attention given to people on the margins of politics, they don't warrant it .....

but this is the epitome of shutting down free speech.

Free Speech for all not those some of us approve of.

MayBee70 you've listed many reasons why you don't care for NF, but they have nothing whatsoever to do with a state official using state apparatus to close down a perfectly legal conference.

Control of state depts
Repression of political opponents
Suspension of civil liberties
Not abiding by the rule of law

These are some of the characteristics of a dictatorship. Why is a democracy trying to behave in the same way?

Arn't the actions of this bureaucrat more frightening?

Casdon

The issue for me isn’t the free speech, I don’t have any problem with that. What I really object to is the media attention given to events staged and attended by people on the margins of politics. Airtime fuels them, and they don’t warrant it.

Farage is very good at using the media to get publicity for himself and people need to stop playing into his hands eg the boats on the Thames during the referendum in which Bob Geldorf got far worse publicity for highlighting Farages failings as an EU MP than Farage got for being exposed in such a way. Bit like dealing with a naughty child by ignoring bad behaviour and praising the good. Trump works in the same way.

maddyone

I agree with that Casdon. Nonetheless I do think the pro Palestine marches should be publicised. We need to know about big events such as these whether we are for or against them.

Thank you for the link Wyllow. It is much more helpful than being told to read foreign press or get Hungarian neighbours. I’m not sure that James next door, wants to move out

Ouch! I wonder who that comment is aimed at!

Actually, I find reading foreign press enlightening.

The second "tip" was tongue in cheek because I do happen to have Hungarian neighbours.

I could ask him I suppose 🫤

I agree with that Casdon. Nonetheless I do think the pro Palestine marches should be publicised. We need to know about big events such as these whether we are for or against them.

Thank you for the link Wyllow. It is much more helpful than being told to read foreign press or get Hungarian neighbours. I’m not sure that James next door, wants to move out

maddyone

What exactly is far right?
It is claimed by some Gransnetters that Orban is far right. I asked what makes him far right as I don’t know much about him, apart from his refusal to take immigrants (how does he get away with that in the EU?) I’ve been told to read the foreign media to enlighten myself. Not much of an answer really. Or get Hungarian neighbours! Not sure how I can arrange that!

Far right politics generally come about as a result of a general dissatisfaction, or malaise at the way things are progressing.

So - far right groups outside of the mainstream political landscape are characterised by being very conservative, nationalistic and authoritarian, but more than that they tend to gain support by identifying other groups as being the cause of much of the problems. This is where you get anti-semitism, islamaphobia and white supremacy, and an intolerance of groups considered to be outside of accepted cultural norms, as dictated by the right wing.

So Orban is the leader of a right wing populist nationalist party that is anti-immigration and anti- LGBTQ rights. He is authoritarian and anti-liberal, rejecting the so called elites. However, and weirdly, Orban in his anti-elite policy has taken on many large corporations, by taxing them, and introducing controls that a left wing government would do, so I think in a way the label “national socialism” does not over egg the pudding when describing Orbán. I don’t mean in a hard Nazi way but in a softer phenomenon.

The issue for me isn’t the free speech, I don’t have any problem with that. What I really object to is the media attention given to events staged and attended by people on the margins of politics. Airtime fuels them, and they don’t warrant it.

On Orban

www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/24/viktor-orban-against-race-mixing-europe-hungary