Brussels police ordered to attend a right wing conference attended by Braverman and Farage

MayBee70

Namsnanny

MayBee70

Casdon

The issue for me isn’t the free speech, I don’t have any problem with that. What I really object to is the media attention given to events staged and attended by people on the margins of politics. Airtime fuels them, and they don’t warrant it.

Farage is very good at using the media to get publicity for himself and people need to stop playing into his hands eg the boats on the Thames during the referendum in which Bob Geldorf got far worse publicity for highlighting Farages failings as an EU MP than Farage got for being exposed in such a way. Bit like dealing with a naughty child by ignoring bad behaviour and praising the good. Trump works in the same way.

Casdon isn't it the job of the media to report on whatever they deem interesting?

Sorry Casdon I dont have a problem with free speech

What I object to is media attention given to people on the margins of politics, they don't warrant it .....

but this is the epitome of shutting down free speech.

Free Speech for all not those some of us approve of.

MayBee70 you've listed many reasons why you don't care for NF, but they have nothing whatsoever to do with a state official using state apparatus to close down a perfectly legal conference.

Control of state depts
Repression of political opponents
Suspension of civil liberties
Not abiding by the rule of law

These are some of the characteristics of a dictatorship. Why is a democracy trying to behave in the same way?

Arn't the actions of this bureaucrat more frightening?

More scared of people using racism and xenophobia to garner support. Anyway, I just said I think they should have just ignored him instead of giving him more publicity. The rise of extreme right wing politics in Europe is imo very worrying.

Right now, I'm more worried about those who actually misuse the law.
Which ever party they belong to.

Thank you very much Whitewave for taking the time to explain exactly to me. I’ve often wondered what the difference is between normal conservative values and far right. I think you’re right, it’s about scapegoating others, as happened in WW2 in Germany. It was taken to it’s furthest extreme with concentration camps and gas chambers. I think I would add perhaps extremely authoritarian, so freedoms are denied, including freedom of speech. Certainly that was true in Hitler’s Germany. I have trouble though with applying that description to most countries today. They maybe right wing, or indeed left wing, but how many countries put people into concentration camps or prison because of what they have said? China certainly. Russia yes. But Israel? I don’t think so. Hungary? I don’t imagine so. Some of the countries of South America probably do, and certainly have done in the past.

I certainly don’t think Nigel Farage is advocating putting people into prison because he/they/we don’t like their views.

Or indeed, anyone on Gransnet would advocate putting Nigel Farage into prison for expressing his views.

Good post Namsnanny at 16.07

Namsnanny

Yes I object to the partisan use of the media too.

Also the use of money or government power to interfere with news coverage.

But its happening all the time, Morning Star for example isn't going to waste time printing middle ground political successes is it?

Nevertheless, it isn't cancelled because some one objects.

Free speech is actually very hard to stomach.

I suspect only those on the far left read the Morning Star, daily circulation is about 10,000 from what I could see. I wouldn’t describe it as mainstream media, would you? I’m really talking about mass media, which covers all the major news stories. I feel the same about celebrity and royal stories. I guess it is the sensational that many people like, rather than actual news.

Whatever happened to freedom of speech in the Western world? I might not agree with the political or other views of some people but they have a perfect right to express them in a non violent way. We hear an awful lot from left wing groups in society but anything judged ‘far right’ by those who hold power (who could themselves be judged as left leaning) is shut down without debate with the usual hysterical cries of Nazi. This is a worrying trend which flies in the face of democracy. We should be very careful of where this leading us. I for one would not like to live in a one party state; there are enough of them around the world to give us warning!

Well said grannygravy

Namsnanny I totally agree, and JudyBloom. They should be allowed freedom of speech. Neo-liberalism is another form of totalitarianism. I do not support Farage or Braverman but I do support their right to be heard.

What happened to freedom of speech or is it just selective speech we agree too. As for Nigel being far right Ive never heard such rubbish in my life for ppl slating him you clearly haven’t listened to or watched his shows. He speaks for most British people and talks a lot of sense. If he was to stand he is only one I’d definitely vote for call me far right if it makes your one side mind happy but at least I like many other don’t have our heads in the sand and can see what is happening to our country.

Well said Nannashirlz.

Yes well said Nannashirlz I think some posters on GN live in cuckoo land.

Nannashirlz

What happened to freedom of speech or is it just selective speech we agree too. As for Nigel being far right Ive never heard such rubbish in my life for ppl slating him you clearly haven’t listened to or watched his shows. He speaks for most British people and talks a lot of sense. If he was to stand he is only one I’d definitely vote for call me far right if it makes your one side mind happy but at least I like many other don’t have our heads in the sand and can see what is happening to our country.

NF does not speak for me, nor many of my peers, friends and family, so I do not he speaks for MOST people.

I do support his right to express his views though I do remember him getting together politically with some quite unsavoury people, including that awful ex conservative MP Anne Widecombe who supported the idea that gay people should be “converted” & “cured”

Nicenanny3

Yes well said Nannashirlz I think some posters on GN live in cuckoo land.

On this we agree, though I doubt we are thinking about the same members

Nannashirlz

What happened to freedom of speech or is it just selective speech we agree too. As for Nigel being far right Ive never heard such rubbish in my life for ppl slating him you clearly haven’t listened to or watched his shows. He speaks for most British people and talks a lot of sense. If he was to stand he is only one I’d definitely vote for call me far right if it makes your one side mind happy but at least I like many other don’t have our heads in the sand and can see what is happening to our country.

He does not speak for ‘most’ British people. He certainly doesn’t speak for me or any of my friends and family. He’s stood for parliament several times and never been elected.

That’s quite possibly because our system is a two horse race.

Whitewavemark2

karmalady

anti-democracy in action

Europe has seen it all before and are determined that it never happens again. Last time it resulted in 6 million (mainly Jews) losing their life.

This time they are after those following the Islamic faith.

Not much democracy for the Jews or Muslims.

The slightly less than 6 million who lost their lives that you allude to were ALL Jewish, either by the criteria of Judaism in other words that they were born of Jewish mothers or had converted following the religious rules, by the faith they practised or by tradition, or by the somewhat dubious arithmetic of the Nuremberg Laws.

You need to add at least 250 000 Roma - the correct figure is unknown and may well be higher, and a vast number of homosexuals, prostitutes and mentally ill people plus those who lost their lives on the battlefields and ships, torpeoded civilian shipping and due to air-raids.

A re-occurence of Nazi or Fascist thinking will very likely target Muslims, but of one thing you can be very certain, Jews and any others who cannot prove Aryan ancestry for at least 3 generations, homosexuals, those suffering from any illness, mental or physical that impairs their ability to work, plus politicians and religious who dare to oppose the powers that be will, as they were after Hitler was legally elected to power in 1933, be killed.

By all means remember the six million Jews (plus those Stalin killed) but spare a thought too for the other victims.

I don’t think anyone is after those of Islamic faith.
However, those of Jewish faith need to be careful in London.

Well said Nannashirlz! 👍😎
I think Nigel Farage has more supporters than people realise. I suspect that his associated Reform Party will do well in the forthcoming elections, but, as someone has pointed out, we don’t have PR in the UK, otherwise they’d win several seats.

Nannashirlz

What happened to freedom of speech or is it just selective speech we agree too. As for Nigel being far right Ive never heard such rubbish in my life for ppl slating him you clearly haven’t listened to or watched his shows. He speaks for most British people and talks a lot of sense. If he was to stand he is only one I’d definitely vote for call me far right if it makes your one side mind happy but at least I like many other don’t have our heads in the sand and can see what is happening to our country.

Farage doesn't speak for me

Nannashirlz

What happened to freedom of speech or is it just selective speech we agree too. As for Nigel being far right Ive never heard such rubbish in my life for ppl slating him you clearly haven’t listened to or watched his shows. He speaks for most British people and talks a lot of sense. If he was to stand he is only one I’d definitely vote for call me far right if it makes your one side mind happy but at least I like many other don’t have our heads in the sand and can see what is happening to our country.

Well, he doesn't speak for most of the people I know or have ever discussed politics with. And I guess it depends on your definition of sense, but I haven't ever heard it - and I have listened to some of his speeches.

Nannashirlz

What happened to freedom of speech or is it just selective speech we agree too. As for Nigel being far right Ive never heard such rubbish in my life for ppl slating him you clearly haven’t listened to or watched his shows. He speaks for most British people and talks a lot of sense. If he was to stand he is only one I’d definitely vote for call me far right if it makes your one side mind happy but at least I like many other don’t have our heads in the sand and can see what is happening to our country.

What is happening to our country (in your opinion)?

I live in Belgium. The only positive thing about Brexit was not having to suffer Farage any longer.
We don’t want him here. Stay away please!

www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/nigel-farage-racist-controversial-comments-im-a-celebrity-b1122381.html

For anybody who doubts where Farage sits politically. I think we all know already though.

Does that mean we can stop Prince Harry speaking (nazi uniform) Or maybe Trudeau (blackface) , I would almost be tempted to give up my free speech commitment in the case of Trudeau, it would be no loss to political contribution, but no even Trudeau should be allowed to speak