Angela Rayner lashes out and calls Sunak “pint sized loser”.

GSM perhaps you could enlighten me with the facts supporting your statement that ‘Johnson is a gentleman; Rayner is reminiscent of a fish wife’.

Prescott was a thug, wwm.

LizzieDrip

GSM
What is detrimental is her refusal to speak as befits her position. That doesn’t involve speaking with a cut-glass accent. I have made several references to the similarity of Alan Johnson’s background and the way that he made himself into someone who could converse with anyone and gain their respect. Rayner has made no effort whatsoever to do that. Strangely, none of her supporters will comment on the gulf between Johnson and Rayner. The one a gentleman, the other reminiscent of a fishwife.

Why should anyone have to ‘make themselves’ into someone else? No-one needs to change who they are because of others’ bigotry. AR is perfectly capable of conversing with anyone; if they cannot show her respect because of the way she speaks then, IMO, the problem lays with them … not with AR. The gulf you refer to between AJ and AR is, of course, based on your opinion, not fact.

The gulf between Johnson and Rayner is based on fact. I assume you don’t remember him?

LizzieDrip

GSM
What is detrimental is her refusal to speak as befits her position. That doesn’t involve speaking with a cut-glass accent. I have made several references to the similarity of Alan Johnson’s background and the way that he made himself into someone who could converse with anyone and gain their respect. Rayner has made no effort whatsoever to do that. Strangely, none of her supporters will comment on the gulf between Johnson and Rayner. The one a gentleman, the other reminiscent of a fishwife.

Why should anyone have to ‘make themselves’ into someone else? No-one needs to change who they are because of others’ bigotry. AR is perfectly capable of conversing with anyone; if they cannot show her respect because of the way she speaks then, IMO, the problem lays with them … not with AR. The gulf you refer to between AJ and AR is, of course, based on your opinion, not fact.

Every word of this!

Not sure why the computer put arbinger when I thought I typed arbiter

Boz

Rayner isn’t per se “working class”, I’d argue she is “classless”. She is feisty like many but her aperture on life is limited and chippy, parochial. Hopefully as time goes by she will mellow as her brand of class warfare is not what Britain in 2024 needs.

This is a quote from a comment in The Times and I think worth considering.

I can remember the same being said about John Prescott - another “working class” deputy PM.

All a load of hot air then as it is now.

I always tip a grin at those declaring the “they have no “class”, as though the one declaring this profound statement is the arbinger of what does or does not constitute class in the snobby sense of the word.

GSM
What is detrimental is her refusal to speak as befits her position. That doesn’t involve speaking with a cut-glass accent. I have made several references to the similarity of Alan Johnson’s background and the way that he made himself into someone who could converse with anyone and gain their respect. Rayner has made no effort whatsoever to do that. Strangely, none of her supporters will comment on the gulf between Johnson and Rayner. The one a gentleman, the other reminiscent of a fishwife.

Why should anyone have to ‘make themselves’ into someone else? No-one needs to change who they are because of others’ bigotry. AR is perfectly capable of conversing with anyone; if they cannot show her respect because of the way she speaks then, IMO, the problem lays with them … not with AR. The gulf you refer to between AJ and AR is, of course, based on your opinion, not fact.

TinSoldier Pint-sized is not a derogatory term.
I have no problem with AR's roots, accent or life experiences, but I will criticise her for her use of these words. I don't like comments referring to somebody's size or shape. Criticise their stated beliefs, their actions etc . You can't believe that she used 'pint-sized' with any other intention than as an insult, why mention his size at all? What purpose did it serve? Would she have mentioned it if he was 6'2"? I don't believe she would.

She has no class, that’s for sure.

Rayner isn’t per se “working class”, I’d argue she is “classless”. She is feisty like many but her aperture on life is limited and chippy, parochial. Hopefully as time goes by she will mellow as her brand of class warfare is not what Britain in 2024 needs.

This is a quote from a comment in The Times and I think worth considering.

Not at all Maizie. I come from a working class family. I have praised Alan Johnson who came from arguably even worse circumstances than Rayner but worked hard to fit in and did so admirably. I have had to work hard to fit in, not having been to university and being entirely self-taught in the law. What I criticise about Rayner is her belief that continuing to speak and behave as she does is acceptable for someone in her position. It isn’t.

Siope

^PMQs is just a weekly pantomime of members of different sides taking shots at one another….^

I don’t entirely agree. I think it’s one if the few chances anyone has to see the extent to which the PM (or deputy) are on top of their brief, and how they respond when pressed, which is borne out by

One thing Rayner doesn’t do is shrink from a challenge - as Dowden so clearly did yesterday

He was unable to respond because he’s not terribly competent, is part of a government which has failed to deliver on the issue being discussed, and was under-prepared, all things which it’s useful for the electorate to be able to witness.

I totally agree Siope, all this gov't have failed to deliver unless you're a billionaire, Dowden is just one of so many lack lustre politicians in the Tory party

PMQs is just a weekly pantomime of members of different sides taking shots at one another….

I don’t entirely agree. I think it’s one if the few chances anyone has to see the extent to which the PM (or deputy) are on top of their brief, and how they respond when pressed, which is borne out by

One thing Rayner doesn’t do is shrink from a challenge - as Dowden so clearly did yesterday

He was unable to respond because he’s not terribly competent, is part of a government which has failed to deliver on the issue being discussed, and was under-prepared, all things which it’s useful for the electorate to be able to witness.

Germanshepherdsmum

I will happily condemn Emily Thornberry for the photo.

Which implies that you object to people sneering at the working classes.

In which case your hypocrisy is a bit staggering...

I will happily condemn Emily Thornberry for the photo.

The oddest thing, for me, about this thread is that on another thread we have condemnation of Emily Thornberry for a photo which was interpreted by right wingers as sneering at the working classes and here we have lots of sneering at a working class woman by right wingers... 🤔

For the most part, PMQs is just a weekly pantomime of members of different sides taking shots at one another. It could be dispensed with at no detriment to the serious business of government.

Thank you Casdon. I was going to say the same thing.

The post of Deputy Prime Minister has no consitutional ranking. The holder of the position has no right to automatic succession to the premiership.

There was no deputy prime minister for over six years between 8 May 2015 to 15 September 2021. Before Dowden’s appointment, we had Raab (and Coffey for 50 days under Truss).

GSM writes: it’s about someone knowing how to represent their country appropriately and with dignity.

In which case Raab failed rather spectacularly. And before anyone accuses me of deflecting. He had the post. Rayner has not and is yet to be proven.

We had a man who does not support the Human Rights Act; a man who, at the time of the Afghan crisis in August 2021, chose to remain on holiday. The Foreign Affairs Select Committee said the government was "missing in action" Raab allegedly avoided communicating with "those he found to be challenging voices”; a man who resigned on 21 April 2023, after an independent investigation found that his behaviour towards civil servants at the Ministry of Justice and at the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office had amounted to bullying.

so much for ... knowing how to represent their country appropriately and with dignity ...

One thing Rayner doesn’t do is shrink from a challenge - as Dowden so clearly did yesterday in PMQs. If she does become Deputy Prime Minister her “regional accent” - all accents are regional - whether they come from London or Lancashire - will make no difference. I doubt many international politicians can differentiate between regional variants of English.

Give me a women with fire in her belly any day over these men.

Pint-sized is not a derogatory term. Fishwife is. Check the OED. Again, the detractors are not practising what they preach.

So Ms Rayner is allowed to body-shame Sunak but if she gained weight and he called her "fat", all hell would break loose.

I can’t help thinking that you have misunderstood what being Deputy PM actually means. This explains it.
www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainer/deputy-prime-minister-first-secretary-state
Being Deputy PM does not automatically entail standing in for the PM on foreign affairs, it’s highly likely that if a PM is incapacitated it would be the Foreign Secretary who would do that.

Germanshepherdsmum

Lee Anderson has nothing to do with it. Some women work hard to get on and to ‘fit in’, which is an important part of ‘getting on’. I know that only too well. Rayner is where she is courtesy of the unions and she has no intention of ‘fitting in’. Some may like women who speak coarsely and screech. I don’t.

I don't like men or women who screech, I also dislike people who sneer and speak down to others. As I said, I am not a great fan of Ms Rayner but I admire her strengths and her determination. I am disturbed by the number of posters who are less concerned about what AR said, than they are by how she said it.

Shocking! Uppity woman* who should be wiping floors for the gentry wiping the floor with them instead.

* Qoute from the right-wing pundit Matthew Parris, pointing out that the reason many Tories despise Rayner is because they genuinely believe she’s uppity.

Lee Anderson has nothing to do with it. Some women work hard to get on and to ‘fit in’, which is an important part of ‘getting on’. I know that only too well. Rayner is where she is courtesy of the unions and she has no intention of ‘fitting in’. Some may like women who speak coarsely and screech. I don’t.

Germanshepherdsmum

Do you have evidence for that? Can she converse easily with world leaders without shaming our country?

Do you think that Lee Anderson could have done so? Working class, blunt, some would say vulgar, but a man of course. I am not a huge fan of AR, but I do despair when women who tell us how hard they had to work to get how they are then sneer at other women who have done the same.

Germanshepherdsmum

Do you have evidence for that? Can she converse easily with world leaders without shaming our country?

Our country has been shamed by its 'leaders' so much in the past few years, culminating in a Bill which legislates for black being white despite all evidence to the contrary. I really doubt that a regional accent is going to add much, if anything to the low esteem it must already have internationally.

Anniebach

Criticism of her voice, not accent’ criticism of what she says,
but mocking her from coming from a council house and had was a child carer is sickening

Totally agree. What AR said in the HoC yesterday may have been unwise, even rude, but the comments on here, by women, aimed at a woman who overcame huge challenges as a child and young woman, are disgusting.