Well Labour’s “patriotism” didn’t last very long, did it? 🇬🇧

The EU has nothing to do with it. We were in the EU when Putin first invaded Ukraine. It was 2014. The Crimea, remember?
NATO is what counts.

I agree Urmstongran
If you want peace prepare for war

‘Peace in our time.’ Neville Chamberlain, 30/11/38
Look how that turned out.

". Vlad's having a laugh. How many of his 'friends' are on those boats crossing the Channel?"

I really think it's quite out of order to conflate all immigrants as allies of Putin. Quite shocked, Urms. How can you justify this? You've slipped it in but it hasn't gone unnoticed.

Whitewavemark2

maddyone

MayBee70

Sunak has just committed to defence spending to be 2.5 per cent of GDP by ( I think…I need to check) 2030.

Yes, that’s right, but since he won’t be in power, we need to be able to rely on the next government to protect the country.

And as the Tories have reduced our military to the smallest level of personnel ever -whilst reduced spending to the smallest level ever

The bar is pretty low isn’t it?

Manpower is not as essential as modern day weaponry.

With drones, long range missiles etc., it is more important to have effective defence / attack capabilities in the air.

U.K. boots on the ground is no longer the first option.

If Ukraine had a bigger air defence system, a plentiful supply of drones and air defence capabilities, hand to hand fighting would be much less and only a last resort when all other options had/have been utilised.

petra

HousePlantQueen

Nicenanny3

The awful Emily Thornberry who in 2014 sneered at a house with 3 St George's Cross Flags flying outside and a white van.

Sigh

Why sigh it’s the truth. But now they’re got wind of the fact that the general population want to be defended.

What do St George's cross flags and white vans have to do with the defence of the UK?

GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2

maddyone

MayBee70

Sunak has just committed to defence spending to be 2.5 per cent of GDP by ( I think…I need to check) 2030.

Yes, that’s right, but since he won’t be in power, we need to be able to rely on the next government to protect the country.

And as the Tories have reduced our military to the smallest level of personnel ever -whilst reduced spending to the smallest level ever

The bar is pretty low isn’t it?

Manpower is not as essential as modern day weaponry.

With drones, long range missiles etc., it is more important to have effective defence / attack capabilities in the air.

U.K. boots on the ground is no longer the first option.

If Ukraine had a bigger air defence system, a plentiful supply of drones and air defence capabilities, hand to hand fighting would be much less and only a last resort when all other options had/have been utilised.

We have neither.

Cameron - against advice had aircraft carriers built which had to be immediately mothballed.

Their incompetence takes some believing.

Labour are damned if they do (the party of spending) and damned if they don’t (the party who don’t care)

Whitewavemark2 The U.K. is safer and has capability. Not everything is in the public domain, nor should it be.

Nicenanny3

10HousePlantQueen

Nicenanny3

The awful Emily Thornberry who in 2014 sneered at a house with 3 St George's Cross Flags flying outside and a white van.

Sigh

*What are you sighing for*

They were discussing on TRIP’s the other day how news items about Labour never seem to go away and yet things that Conservative MP’s say and do are forgotten about almost immediately. For what it’s worth Emily apologised for saying it but also pointed out that her brother is a white van man. Maybe people’s expectation of Labour MP’s is higher.

GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2 The U.K. is safer and has capability. Not everything is in the public domain, nor should it be.

And I assume you know little more than the rest of us. So I’m not sure why you are so confident?

It’s high time defence spending went up and hopefully it’s in time, you never know what’s round the corner.
I sincerely hope that Labour will see that it’s necessary and not allow the far left amongst them talk it down, once in power.

". Vlad's having a laugh. How many of his 'friends' are on those boats crossing the Channel?"

I really think it's quite out of order to conflate all immigrants as allies of Putin. Quite shocked, Urms. How can you justify this? You've slipped it in but it hasn't gone unnoticed.

Well, here you go Wyllow3.
Fill yer boots.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/29/putin-russia-wagner-militia-africa-immigration-europe/#:~:text=It%20has%20been%20widely%20feared,control%20the%20flow%20of%20migrants.

Oreo

It’s high time defence spending went up and hopefully it’s in time, you never know what’s round the corner.
I sincerely hope that Labour will see that it’s necessary and not allow the far left amongst them talk it down, once in power.

Indeed.

We don't spend nearly enough on defence. Capabilities in the air, drones, better specialty pay etc. I'd like to see defence at 3.5% GDP.

Bottom line: Russia spends 8% against our 2.5% on defence because it’s in a warmongering mood. Russia is a bitter and twisted dump, led by gangsters who see themselves as conquering heroes for Mother Russia.

The West is very happy to prolong the war in Ukraine. It suits our purposes. Ukrainians are being used as canon fodder to weaken Russia thus saving NATO resources and lives. The longer the war lasts, the better for the West.

Just saying.

This is worth a read, it’s solid journalism - Russia is stuck between a rock and a hard place.
theconversation.com/russias-economy-is-now-completely-driven-by-the-war-in-ukraine-it-cannot-afford-to-lose-but-nor-can-it-afford-to-win-221333

flappergirl

The West is very happy to prolong the war in Ukraine. It suits our purposes. Ukrainians are being used as canon fodder to weaken Russia thus saving NATO resources and lives. The longer the war lasts, the better for the West.

Just saying.

Can’t believe anyone can even think this.

Scary analysis Casdon thank you for the link. If war is driving Russia’s economy then we should all be wary. Ukraine first … then who?

Oreo

flappergirl

The West is very happy to prolong the war in Ukraine. It suits our purposes. Ukrainians are being used as canon fodder to weaken Russia thus saving NATO resources and lives. The longer the war lasts, the better for the West.

Just saying.

Can’t believe anyone can even think this.

Oreo, the world is not run by fine, upstanding gentlemen in bowler hats. It's a power struggle with the weakest going to the wall. If we knew even a fraction of the truth we'd be petrified and appalled beyond rational thought.

Well, that amused me, the bowler hats😂
Of course a lot goes on behind the scenes, but I don’t go for any old wild conspiracy theories either.
Russia winning this war would be very bad for the West as it would give Putin wings as to what more he could achieve.

Wyllow3

"Given that we arguably have a more dangerous Russia than we did during the Cold War"

what arguments? sources?

Really, haven't you heard they invaded Ukraine, interfered with radar on civilian aircraft, murdered people in the UK. Etc etc Wake up. I for one do not trust Labour to defend this country.

Yes, have heard, don't agree with the conclusion at least atm. I back being part of NATO and believe Labour is going to protect us adequately. ~Possibly more adequately than funding atm.

Urms, cant get through the pay barrier on the Telegraph and googled as widely as I can. There are reports of sending spies to all European countries....(especially Finland) we've not been singled out - but also found reports of young Russians trying to escape from taking part in fighting..

OK, so when 7 year olds aren't drowning in the Channel , they are snuggling up to Russian spies?
Really?

Then they bail out in Dover and go to a 5 star hotel before scrounging off us?

Oreo

Well, that amused me, the bowler hats😂
Of course a lot goes on behind the scenes, but I don’t go for any old wild conspiracy theories either.
Russia winning this war would be very bad for the West as it would give Putin wings as to what more he could achieve.

You've missed the point Oreo. Please read my original post. Of course the West doesn't want Russia to win the war, they want the war in Ukraine to weaken Russia. Which it has.

Russia is investing large sums of money, men and machinery in the war and is stretching itself to the limit. The longer the war lasts, the weaker Russia becomes and (possibly) the more unpopular Putin becomes with his own people.

The West didn't start the Ukraine war but they've no desire to see it end, not yet anyway. It's serving a very useful purpose of weakening Russia and Putin.

I would add that this is far from "any old wild conspiracy theory".