renationalising railways

Spabbygirl I am all for better run and cheaper prices whatever it is, but sadly I don’t believe for one minute that prices will go down , I think there will
Be an excuse , however I hope I am proved wrong

Visgirl- but theyre exactly like that now as well, with the privatised companies, yet much more expensive!

I watched a programme from 70's last night (Man about the house) and was eye-opening to see sign outside rail station on it (they had taken a trip to see parents) was British Rail in huge lettering! A real blast from the past.

Aveline

I'm with Plunger. I remember the bad old days of nationalised industries. The trains were as Plunger described them.

Totally agree.. The Trains never on time, dirty, shambles most of the time.

The taxpayers already subsidise the private companies, and have to bail them out when they fail in their statutory duties.

I may have the wrong end of the stick but if railways are nationalised won’t it be the taxpayers that pay for its upkeep? I very much doubt that fare prices will come down.

Germanshepherdsmum

I have heard no mention of the phenomenal cost of renationalisation. And yet I watched Emily Thornberry being interviewed yesterday, saying that there would be no uncosted policies.

I did hear that the reason there’s a 5 year target is because they’d wait til the end of each contract and not renew them thus not having to compensate BUT t will cost so much to bring it all together.

I’m on the fence, I don’t think either water or energy should EVER have been privatised, and particularly I disagree with foreign companies running them and our railways.

Do wish someone would fully privatised the Post Office though and open up proper competition for our postal services at a sensible price and reliable!

I was talking about increased taxation to cover money created or borrowed by the government for privatisation and the predicted increased running costs Maizie. And possibly increased fares.

Aveline

I'm with Plunger. I remember the bad old days of nationalised industries. The trains were as Plunger described them.

Not the ones I travelled on.

Hi I remember when my father was alive and commuted Hove to London everyday on “nationalised” railways! He was always home late. The trains were never on time! Don’t think it will make much difference.
More important is to renationalise water companies

I'm with Plunger. I remember the bad old days of nationalised industries. The trains were as Plunger described them.

Plunger

What short memories people have! British Rail was a joke. Dirty trains, dirty toilets, inedible food and late running. Not cheap either. Since privatisation new rolling stock has been delivered and kept in good condition ( its the passengers that cause the mess/damage)
Also has anyone bothered to cost nationalisation- can't see companies handing back their rolling stock for peanuts.

My memory is fine, Plunger. I had no problems with British Rail train services apart from the overcrowding...

Katie59

MaizieD

Germanshepherdsmum

Whatever the price, it will be coming out of our pockets.

All that comes out of our pockets is money that the government, either directly through spending, or indirectly by licensing commercial banks to issue money, put in our pockets in the first place. Much of it will be taxed back from the people or organisations that received that money not from the entire taxpaying population.

It doesn’t have to be “taxed” back those of us that can afford it can pay, we get too many cut price or free services, means testing by any other name, most other countries do it the UK could too.

It has to be 'taxed back' otherwise the country would be awash with excess money.

My point, which I didn't express very well, is that much of the money issued is taxed back as it is spent by the recipients (businesses or wage earners). This increases the tax take, without any need for increasing taxes over all because just about every monetary transaction is subject to taxation. Increased money put into the economy by state spending equals increased consumer and business spending And, while it is circulating through the economy it will increase economic activity, mostly in the private sector.

The only money that won't be taxed back is money that people save, or that is spent overseas.

What short memories people have! British Rail was a joke. Dirty trains, dirty toilets, inedible food and late running. Not cheap either. Since privatisation new rolling stock has been delivered and kept in good condition ( its the passengers that cause the mess/damage)
Also has anyone bothered to cost nationalisation- can't see companies handing back their rolling stock for peanuts.

Well we were promise the moon on a stick with Brexit and look how that turned out. Italian railways are super cheap and efficient, you can actually get from Paris to Milan for less than €50, and even a super cheap booked ahead ticket for less than €16. You get a discount for over 60s, no need to pay out for a special card. Italian Railways actually are one of the owners of our rail companies, so they benefit from our ridiculously expensive fares.

^Ailsa43
Labour will promise Palaces for everyone on the Moon with butlers and hand -maids if they think they can get votes . The fact these things will never materialise won't stop them promising they'll get them^

Tory promises:
£350 million per week to NHS
40 new hospitals
Levelling up
HS2
I could go on and on …

Callistemon21

Aveline

I don't remember the old nationalised railways as being much good. In fact they were so poor that something had to be done. We're just going round in circles.

We used them a lot when I was a child as we didn't have a car.
D used them to travel to and from school.

All those years ago they were very good and reliable but then I do remember a decline in the 1960s/70s.
You'd sink into a seat and a cloud of dust would appear around you, trains became more unreliable, sat in sidings for long periods of time making passengers late and a general decline.

I used trains quite a lot in the 70's and 80's as I was living a long way from family. and didn't drive I don't recall any particular problems as far as punctuality and missing trains are concerned. They weren't overly expensive and there were no complex ticketing arrangements. You could turn up to a station, get a ticket and get on the next appropriate train...

OTOH, they were sometimes dreadfully overcrowded, particularly on the East Coast main line, but I don't think that privatisation has made any difference in that respect, they can still be overcrowded.

It’s a big yes from me; then water next. Hopefully this is the beginning of the end for rich shareholders creaming off billions from UK infrastructure.

Spinnaker

Ailsa43

Labour will promise Palaces for everyone on the Moon with butlers and hand -maids if they think they can get votes . The fact these things will never materialise won't stop them promising they'll get them..

Absolutely and don't forget too that the sun will shine every day while they're in power 👀

lol..., so true...you can bet your life on it... if you don't value your life...

Ailsa43

Labour will promise Palaces for everyone on the Moon with butlers and hand -maids if they think they can get votes . The fact these things will never materialise won't stop them promising they'll get them..

Perhaps you'd like to tell us what sparkling achievements the tories have made over the last 14 years that they've been in government?

Ailsa43

Labour will promise Palaces for everyone on the Moon with butlers and hand -maids if they think they can get votes . The fact these things will never materialise won't stop them promising they'll get them..

Absolutely and don't forget too that the sun will shine every day while they're in power 👀

Labour will promise Palaces for everyone on the Moon with butlers and hand -maids if they think they can get votes . The fact these things will never materialise won't stop them promising they'll get them..

TinSoldier

Yes, but we could talk a lot about the phenomenal cost of privatisation that has placed shareholder profits over investment, customer service and value for money.

Nationalising rail should be a priority along with water and social care. We must start somehere in what will be a very long road to recovery after the damage Conservative policy has done to this country.

Rail travel in Britain is considerably more expensive that other countries and we are entitled to question why bu,t of course, we already know the answer.

Conservative MP, the late Robert Adley, a leading opponent of the plans made by John Major's government for the privatisation of British Rail, described it a "poll tax on wheels”.

Since then, some £31 billion has leaked out of the network into the hands of the private sector. Until the cost-of-living crisis, when fare increases were decoupled from retail price index inflation (funny that), fares were consistently 15-20 percent higher in real terms than when the rail was publicly owned.

Why? Because, splitting a business into privatised companies each with its own shareholders, pricing structures and layers of management was always a recipe for unnecessary expense and complexity.

The sheer notion that the cost of a long journey, paid for in stages over the same rail tracks, where one never leaves the train, can be less expensive than buying one end-to-end journey is ridiculous. The cost of bought-on-the-day tickets makes it prohibitively expensive to travel by train.

The fact that I can fly to Edinburgh in just over an hour for a third of the price of a six hour rail journey is simply not competitive in terms of time or money.

Everything needs to be simplified to make passenger and rail freight more attractive and less expensive and to make the whole business of running Network Rail more transparent.

Oh yes, absolutely!
Then we can get on to water which privatising has decimated whilst making some people very rich indeed.

The private companies are given huge subsidies, about £26 billion last I saw. Apparently the vast majority of the infrastructure is already owned and operated by a not-for-profit company owned by the government, so perhaps the only costs there would be any necessary reorganisation of that entity.

Allowing the existing Train Operating Company franchises / concessions to expire before absorbing them back into government ownership as and when possible would also be much cheaper than buying them back.

The expensive bit would be buying back all of the rolling-stock, which is privately owned

YES as soon as possible.We must have the worst most expensive trains in Europe.The stupid thing is Foreign countries own virtually all our assets.Privatisation of public services only benefit shareholders not the people.