Multiple stabbings in London

I heard on Sky news tonight that eye witnesses said he was shouting at police officers asking if they believed in God?
It is likely a MH issue and it’s a tragedy all round - again!

They get these weapons on the internet.

No not on the news items I have seen Casdon.
The police were incredibly brave.
This may sound ridiculously naive but where would people get that kind of weapon.

I wonder that the police didn’t taser him before he was able to get close to them?There will be questions asked I bet

Tazers are ony issued to specially trained officers. They re not just carried around as a matter of routine because they are only required on special occasions. We do not yet know whether the first officers who arrived at the scene were tazer authorised or even whether they were equipped with them. More likely they would need to wait until a trained and equipped officer arrived. Because of the danger to civillians they would try other methods to take him down. On the video the officer with the tazer looks to be female. Not that it matters.

Think it was the families who placed the ' moral defectives' in institutions Iam64
Very different times then.

Is it known that this man had mental health issues, I can’t see that’s been reported anywhere?

I’m asking because on the thread last week about the 13 year old who stabbed teachers at school it was assumed, but in fact she was remanded to youth detention accommodation after her court appearance.

Exactly urmston. No one would want to return to those awful institutions or to incarcerating vulnerable girls for life for getting pregnant. Those vulnerable people haven’t disappeared though

It would seem ‘Care in the Community’ is a misnomer. ‘Care on the Cheap’ might be a better description.

Terrorism definition is listed as 'the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims'.
So if someone with metal illness starts killing people this is not terrorism because it's not politically motivated. It is more likely drugs are involved one way or another (either taking them or not taking them) and don't forget that huge quantities of ultra processed foods cause mental health problems too. And that's official.

I would suggest that we are seeing more and more young men going off their heads and turning murderous because they have spent years abusing themselves with drugs, alcohol and junk food. Add to that violent video games and movies and you have a perfect storm. An unhealthy life will produce an unhealthy mind. Just my theory.
Chestnut, I think there is a great deal of truth in what you write. And so often people involved in these episodes are receiving support and medication but deliberately refuse to take it.

Those much maligned institutions provided a place of safety and help for many people. Those suffering psychotic episodes were safe and the public protected.
Of course things have moved on and in many ways needed to but there are very few places left to care for severely psychotic people. My daughter is a senior mental health practitioner and when called out in an emergency she can deal with the immediate issue. Then she spends hours trying to find a bed or ongoing support for the patient. So sad the NHS is failing vulnerable people.

petra

ALL the cutbacks over many years are now coming to fruition.
First it was the closure of secure mental health units.
Where shall we house them, in the community.
Who’s going to medicate the seriously ill, the psychiatric nurses we put out of a job.
Now ^we find that we don’t want/ can’t afford/ can’t be arsed to employ those CPNs.
Thereby putting thousands of lives at risk from poor souls who should have been in a secure unit.

Well said Petra. I’m not suggesting we return to the huge institutions of the past but it’s crazy to think that society no longer needs some form of residential care for some individuals.
That’s probably irrelevant to this incident which has the hallmarks of a psychotic incident. That does link to your accurate comments about the deliberate destruction of mh services.

Wyllow3

AGAA4

My DH used to say if the police started to carry guns routinely he would leave and many of his colleagues agreed. It would result in more violence.

I agree about this very strongly.

My father said the same AGAA4, I remember him being sent to update firearm training towards the end of his career. He did it of course but remained steadfast in opposing routine arming if our police.

vegansrock

I wonder if this is yet another example of (no) care in the community.

No doubt on that one as a possibility:

Or taking crack cocaine or other illegal and dangerous drugs.

eazybee

I thought how brave those policemen were. No apparent body armour, shields or head protection yet they went straight after him.

2 of the bravest were women police officers.

I wonder if this is yet another example of (no) care in the community.

AGAA4

My DH used to say if the police started to carry guns routinely he would leave and many of his colleagues agreed. It would result in more violence.

I agree about this very strongly.

crazyH

All our brave police, men and women, should be armed.

Surprised to see armed response unit did not appear to be there

There is a rental property opposite to me that is lived in by someone who didn't cope well with the care home he was in: they felt that a quiet cul de sac lived with just pensioners would be quieter for him. Is it awful of me to have worried initially that he was a paranoid schizophrenic ( I don’t think that he is)?They took him for a walk the other day and it took two of his care workers to get him back in the house. What makes it even worse is that the house needed a complete refurbishment before it could house new tenants but that was never done.

Well it’s only opinion, but I would have thought Australia was less violent than the UK. However during the recent stabbing incident that took place in Australia, the armed policewoman shot dead the attacker, and thus prevented any further deaths. She was the first on the scene and was routinely armed. She was commended for her bravery the same day. That wouldn’t happen here in the UK.
I don’t think we should routinely arm our police, despite the increased dangers. It would be unfair on them.

AGAA4

My DH used to say if the police started to carry guns routinely he would leave and many of his colleagues agreed. It would result in more violence.

I don't know that Australia is more violent than the UK, perhaps someone has statistics.

Certainly some horrendous mass murders come to mind but we have had those here too.

petra

ALL the cutbacks over many years are now coming to fruition.
First it was the closure of secure mental health units.
Where shall we house them, in the community.
Who’s going to medicate the seriously ill, the psychiatric nurses we put out of a job.
Now ^we find that we don’t want/ can’t afford/ can’t be arsed to employ those CPNs.
Thereby putting thousands of lives at risk from poor souls who should have been in a secure unit.

👏👏👏

My DH used to say if the police started to carry guns routinely he would leave and many of his colleagues agreed. It would result in more violence.

I thought how brave those policemen were. No apparent body armour, shields or head protection yet they went straight after him.

Whilst it would seem to be a solution to arm our police, I just think it would be too unfair on them, because in this country we immediately suspend any police officer who has fired a gun and hurt someone. Then there are months long investigations and all that ensues from that. If we can’t do what was done in Australia, and commend a police officer who uses their gun in the line of duty, and thereby saves the lives of others, then we shouldn’t arm them routinely. We do have armed units that can respond when necessary to certain situations.

Oreo

tickingbird
They did taser him eventually but couldn’t get close enough to him.
In that case how come two police officers need surgery?

Tasering someone isn’t that easy. From the reports I heard one taser didn’t have any effect. If it doesn’t connect properly it’s useless. The officers were chasing him apparently but couldn’t get close enough. I believe he’d already injured the two officers.