Immigration and migrants

The Germans are efficient alright and have always been so.
Presumably we need as many bureaucrats as they do to catch up on waiting times.

I think there is a "down" on any suggestions

because of the abysmal processing system we have in the UK.

Because we fail so badly, and Rwanda has been such an expensive mess, people demonise and ate encouraged to demonise in an "they're all the same" way

Not only that, but there is a deliberate government narrative over the last year when all asylum seekers are painted intrinsically bad, untrustworthy, dangerous, cannot work. Example of the "Bad" are constantly brought out not the many who want to work and live like anyone else. Suggestions of supervision needed s here sound more like prison.

A narrative of hate and blame instead of constructive working on ideas and possible small but valuable initiatives.

I had a look across at Germany, which still has more seekers than the UK

In Germany "The processing of asylum applications in Germany has become slightly faster – on average, people now have to wait around six months for a decision. That's despite a substantial increase in the number of applications.

Figures released by the German interior ministry show that in the first half of 2023, the average asylum procedure took 6.6 months, one month less than in 2022." If you are accepted then you are allowed to apply for jobs."

If you are rejected you are returned to your country of origin.

Unless people have qualifications work typically taken is actually the same as suggestions made here (construction, agriculture, hospitality etc).

Refugees are allowed to do voluntary work in the UK, this of course is organised and led as refugees have not been granted asylum.

Germanshepherdsmum

Fgs, the idea of the Rwanda scheme is to get rid of them. We don’t need them gardening/upcycling furniture/whatever daft idea people have which won’t earn them enough to live on. We don’t need them, full stop.

No country in the West wants them or needs them, that’s why it’s such a problem.
At least arranging terms with Albania has slowed economic migrants from there to a trickle.

Cossy
Which part was horrifying the amount of money paid or the corruption at Calais. I’ve known about Calais for years through a harbour master at Dover.
Of course I’ve never said anything because it wouldn’t be believed especially on GN. But now it’s out there. It’s the same at Zeebrugge.

petra

This looks interesting.

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-13396061/BBC-podcast-migrants-channel-people-smugglers-calais.html

If they can find £18,000 to come here illegally then they are not “poor immigrants”.

There is more I could say about this but last week got a real dressing down from someone who said I should not share “tittle tattle” from a person I know who works for Border Force.

growstuff

Freya5

Germanshepherdsmum

Cossy

GSM

“Those who claim to have a trade or profession have to undergo exams to prove that they are competent and safe to work here, and they must have a sufficient command of the English language. Those who are to work with children and vulnerable people must pass the appropriate police checks, but how when there is no documentary evidence of who they are and from whence they come? Surely you can understand that?”

I completely understand and actually agree with you to a certain extent, BUT, big huge but, it takes little skill to become part of a team cleaning streets, removing refuse, assisting at a local tip/dump, to be a general labourer, to be a general cleaner as part of a team. Working with others who speak English will improve their understanding and use of English. I’m only suggesting these role until such time as they have their cases processed. We have plenty of “unskilled” roles, and we will simply have to agree to respectfully disagree that asylum seekers ALL arrive here with no English and no skills. I don’t think I suggested they should practice as lawyers ir doctors.

Do we have such a great need of people doing those menial jobs? And when their wages are insufficient to feed them and put roofs over their heads, what happens?

You are an idealist, not a realist.

It's OK. Us tax payers will top up their wages.

No, we wouldn't. They wouldn't even need to be paid. They would be learning skills, which could then be put to good use. Speculate to accumulate!

PS. Who do you think is paying for the Rwanda scheme?

Dear God growstuff. Speculate to accumulate? Will these people exist on thin air whilst training and until they can earn a living wage? Do you live in the real world or in Utopia?

Callistemon
I hate to be the one to burst your id bubble, but, 😁 for this to work we need more coppers on the beat, and that isn’t going to happen anytime soon.
Added to that, some scallywag will find a way to counterfeit them, sorry 🤷‍♀️

Asylum seekers aren't toddlers or animals. They don't need constant supervision. Many of them will actually have trades, such as carpentry, so interview them, ask what they can do and use a bit of imagination to find them work. For example, people dispose of old furniture all the time, so get some of them to restore it.
That is already being done in many areas to try to give people the skills to get into or back into work. Upcycling.

Of course they would need supervision.

If you have no clue what skills, if any, a person has, they need supervision and showing how to do a task. Does anyone take on an apprentice and let them loose on a job without supervision?
No, and you'd make sure that apprentice has the required standard of education before taking them on.

Fgs, the idea of the Rwanda scheme is to get rid of them. We don’t need them gardening/upcycling furniture/whatever daft idea people have which won’t earn them enough to live on. We don’t need them, full stop.

Cossy

westendgirl

Cossy , you might as well go and get on with something else .
I am as fed up as you are with the refusal of some posters to even consider there could be ways forward. There's no chance of a reasonable debate at all .

Yes I’ll go and bang my head on a wall a few times, watch some paint dry and then have a few strong drinks.

🍾🍾🍾

I wish I drank!

Freya5

Germanshepherdsmum

Cossy

GSM

“Those who claim to have a trade or profession have to undergo exams to prove that they are competent and safe to work here, and they must have a sufficient command of the English language. Those who are to work with children and vulnerable people must pass the appropriate police checks, but how when there is no documentary evidence of who they are and from whence they come? Surely you can understand that?”

I completely understand and actually agree with you to a certain extent, BUT, big huge but, it takes little skill to become part of a team cleaning streets, removing refuse, assisting at a local tip/dump, to be a general labourer, to be a general cleaner as part of a team. Working with others who speak English will improve their understanding and use of English. I’m only suggesting these role until such time as they have their cases processed. We have plenty of “unskilled” roles, and we will simply have to agree to respectfully disagree that asylum seekers ALL arrive here with no English and no skills. I don’t think I suggested they should practice as lawyers ir doctors.

Do we have such a great need of people doing those menial jobs? And when their wages are insufficient to feed them and put roofs over their heads, what happens?

You are an idealist, not a realist.

It's OK. Us tax payers will top up their wages.

No, we wouldn't. They wouldn't even need to be paid. They would be learning skills, which could then be put to good use. Speculate to accumulate!

PS. Who do you think is paying for the Rwanda scheme?

PS. I don't smoke, never mind wacky stuff and I don't think I've ever said "far out". I do, however, know a few people who have set up all sorts of schemes for Ukrainians in this town. They're realists - fortunately not of the negative variety.

Germanshepherdsmum

Cossy

GSM

“Those who claim to have a trade or profession have to undergo exams to prove that they are competent and safe to work here, and they must have a sufficient command of the English language. Those who are to work with children and vulnerable people must pass the appropriate police checks, but how when there is no documentary evidence of who they are and from whence they come? Surely you can understand that?”

I completely understand and actually agree with you to a certain extent, BUT, big huge but, it takes little skill to become part of a team cleaning streets, removing refuse, assisting at a local tip/dump, to be a general labourer, to be a general cleaner as part of a team. Working with others who speak English will improve their understanding and use of English. I’m only suggesting these role until such time as they have their cases processed. We have plenty of “unskilled” roles, and we will simply have to agree to respectfully disagree that asylum seekers ALL arrive here with no English and no skills. I don’t think I suggested they should practice as lawyers ir doctors.

Do we have such a great need of people doing those menial jobs? And when their wages are insufficient to feed them and put roofs over their heads, what happens?

You are an idealist, not a realist.

It's OK. Us tax payers will top up their wages.

Cossy, this was put on to cause division. You have your opinion just don’t lecture me because I think the opposite , I am a grown woman and know what I see around me.

PS. I think we should have ID cards too.

Who checks they're not working cash in hand now? For the money which the Rwanda scheme has cost, it wouldn't be rocket science to come up with various schemes which don't require previous skills or qualifications and don't involve face-to-face contact with the public. Asylum seekers aren't toddlers or animals. They don't need constant supervision. Many of them will actually have trades, such as carpentry, so interview them, ask what they can do and use a bit of imagination to find them work. For example, people dispose of old furniture all the time, so get some of them to restore it. I wish I were younger because I could honestly come up with loads of things they could do and I'd be happy to set up a scheme.

Wyllow3

Cossy

westendgirl

Cossy , you might as well go and get on with something else .
I am as fed up as you are with the refusal of some posters to even consider there could be ways forward. There's no chance of a reasonable debate at all .

Yes I’ll go and bang my head on a wall a few times, watch some paint dry and then have a few strong drinks.

🍾🍾🍾

Don't give up Cossy its always worth looking for positive ideas even if it can only apply to part of a problem.

Nothing is ever an ideal solution but real ideas should be welcomed.

Yes, ideas are worth considering but who will supervise the asylum seekers when they are working? Will they just disappear into the black economy and we will never know what happens to them?

I've had an idea - what about ID cards for the population?

I do know how some posters dislike the idea but it would solve many problems.

petra

This looks interesting.

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-13396061/BBC-podcast-migrants-channel-people-smugglers-calais.html

Rather than “interesting” I found this utterly horrifying!

Wyllow3

I'd love to hear what solutions the "realists" have, tho, in this scenario.

(I think its a bit of a false dichotomy however - you can be both)

Me too!

I'd love to hear what solutions the "realists" have, tho, in this scenario.

(I think its a bit of a false dichotomy however - you can be both)

This looks interesting.

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-13396061/BBC-podcast-migrants-channel-people-smugglers-calais.html

GSM, somebody save us from the idealists. We need more realists. I have not heard so many. impractical ideas since my University days. Most of them had been smoking the wacky stuff., and said things like "far out man "
Fortunately, most of them grew up and grew out of it, became realists.

Cossy

westendgirl

Cossy , you might as well go and get on with something else .
I am as fed up as you are with the refusal of some posters to even consider there could be ways forward. There's no chance of a reasonable debate at all .

Yes I’ll go and bang my head on a wall a few times, watch some paint dry and then have a few strong drinks.

🍾🍾🍾

Don't give up Cossy its always worth looking for positive ideas even if it can only apply to part of a problem.

Nothing is ever an ideal solution but real ideas should be welcomed.

Cossy

GSM

“Those who claim to have a trade or profession have to undergo exams to prove that they are competent and safe to work here, and they must have a sufficient command of the English language. Those who are to work with children and vulnerable people must pass the appropriate police checks, but how when there is no documentary evidence of who they are and from whence they come? Surely you can understand that?”

I completely understand and actually agree with you to a certain extent, BUT, big huge but, it takes little skill to become part of a team cleaning streets, removing refuse, assisting at a local tip/dump, to be a general labourer, to be a general cleaner as part of a team. Working with others who speak English will improve their understanding and use of English. I’m only suggesting these role until such time as they have their cases processed. We have plenty of “unskilled” roles, and we will simply have to agree to respectfully disagree that asylum seekers ALL arrive here with no English and no skills. I don’t think I suggested they should practice as lawyers ir doctors.

Do we have such a great need of people doing those menial jobs? And when their wages are insufficient to feed them and put roofs over their heads, what happens?

You are an idealist, not a realist.

westendgirl

Cossy , you might as well go and get on with something else .
I am as fed up as you are with the refusal of some posters to even consider there could be ways forward. There's no chance of a reasonable debate at all .

Yes I’ll go and bang my head on a wall a few times, watch some paint dry and then have a few strong drinks.

🍾🍾🍾