Immigration and migrants

Aveline

Oh well that's alright then Cossy!

Sarcasm is not required thanks!

I think demonising and dehumanise these, and indeed other cohorts of people, is unfair.

I’m sure there are a percentage of “bad” people amongst these “boat people@, just like there are in all societies and communities.

I’ve stayed so many times we need a fair, firm and robust migration policy, regardless of how these people arrive in the UK and I, along with many many others, want to see the dangerous ways they travel stopped.

I don’t blame the people on the boats, in the coaches, in the lorries, I blame ours and other European govts for failing to stop them and failing to protect our borders and all human life and I blame the ever growing richer people traffickers and those here who help these people disappear into our often very unsavoury black market.

I certainly don’t try and pretend that the all the people coming across in this way are ill educated, unskilled terrorist rapists.

I really doubt a doctor from anyone who comes over in a small boat and claims asylum would be able to work in the NHS!
Or any other profession either.Standards have to be met and checked thoroughly.

No-one is disputing the fact that they might be hard workers.

However, we don't know that even if they had papers with ID and qualifications.
Their qualifications might not be up to British standards.

Do we want someone to build a house, work as an electrician, service our car if we are not sure if or how they are qualified?

Posters talk about immigrants possibly being doctors, lawyers.
Do doctors not need further qualifications and to pass an English examination to work here?

Lawyers cannot work here simply because the laws here are different from those in their own countries. I know one, she is working as a waitress.

They can’t prove they have skills if they have no paperwork Cossy, and any they may have learned may not be to British standards . Witness the dreadful inadequacies in construction in some countries. We all know that many Eastern bloc immigrants are hard workers - also they didn’t destroy their papers and they came from countries where checking their credentials was possible. They may well have been economic migrants, of whom according to statistics 88% are likely to be employed once permitted as opposed to 50% of asylum seekers.

Oh well that's alright then Cossy!

Primrose53
GSM

You are both making huge assumptions. If they have no papers you don’t know how old they are.

Young people, especially in countries where the age people leave school is far less than those here, might have gained many practical skills, mechanical, carpentry, brick building, to name just three which would be very useful over here. The great thing with practical skills is that a few days work trial would soon sort the wheat from the chaff.

A couple who used to live very close to us and came from a previous Eastern block country when they were in their very early 20’s. Both worked from the point they were legally able to, and worked harder than many British born.

They had the cleanest neatest property in the street, learnt and spoke good English. He was a painter/decorator/builder and she was a hairdresser but also work part time in hospitality.

Thank you, Tickingbird for your post. Settling down with a cup of coffee and reading through posts on Gransnet used to be a pleasurable part of my day. That’s not the case so much lately, as it seems to me that some of the threads are dominated by people who are firmly convinced that their opinion is the right one and the only one and that anyone who holds an alternative view is, at best, uneducated and ill informed or at worst, an ignorant bigot. I find myself more and more seeing a posters name, scrolling past and moving on. Like you, I wish there was a little more tolerance for others viewpoints and less sniping, sarcasm and unpleasantness. Looking back through this thread, it’s been a humdinger in that regard!

I agree. And many are too young to have acquired useful skills.

Cossy regarding your final sentence, they cannot prove what skills they have because they have destroyed all paperwork. People like that are of no use and will spend their lives on benefits.

Lesley60

Whilst I agree all these people are human beings and if they are genuine asylum seekers like Ukrainian people then they should be allowed in.
But we have to accept that there are to many people in our small country, some who are dying needlessly through lack of being able to get an appointment with a doctor, or being on a waiting list for years for an operation.
We also have to look at our schools being overcrowded and homeless people
It’s all very well the government are saying it’s because we live longer but what about the overpopulation of our small country surely we have to be able to look after ourselves before we can help others

You are absolutely right in your assertion that many people are suffering in our country.

BUT we do not have too many people in our country. We have too many people living in densely populated areas, but we also have plenty of land, some of it is brownbelt land, lots of empty run down houses, loads of empty and unused office blocks and warehouses countrywide.

We have an increasingly aging population and I understand we have had a decreasing birth rate across the last few years.

Our govt needs to carefully build, including more social housing, with proper infra structures including shops, schools, hospitals and GP surgeries, which they then to ensure we have enough trained and qualified staff to service.

They then need a robust, fair and working policy and procedures for all migration.

When they’ve sorted that perhaps they can then ensure all our services work properly, build some new reservoirs, ensure the pipes are properly maintained.

There’s so much our govt should have done in the last 14 years. Perhaps we wouldn’t be in the mess we are in now, and people would consistently persist in blaming migrants for all the things wrong in this country.

Also, what’s with the assumption that those coming in and seeking asylum are “unskilled”, and will be of no use to us?

Germanshepherdsmum

*Casdon*. Do you have any statistics regarding the religions of ‘boat migrants’ and the number of Muslim women in other countries who work and have the freedoms and respect we have in the West? We can’t compare how Muslim men brought up here behave towards women with how those in other countries, where subjugation (and worse - FGM for instance) is the norm, behave.

No, women in some Muslim countries are treated appallingly. Many of the men know that and empathise, which is precisely why they'd prefer to live in the West. Some of them are prepared to speak out about autocracy and then get persecuted. (Just cast your mind back a few months to what happened in Iran.) Some of them are gay, which isn't tolerated in most Muslim countries. People who empathise with Muslim immigrants don't have to want to live in the countries they come from. By the way, FGM isn't exclusively Muslim.

No, I don't need to accept blatant bigotry. The Germans in the 1930s did just that and look at what happened.

Thank you Callistemon and Maizie.

I was trying not to use the "quote" function because somebody was complaining that threads get too long.

PS. to utterbliss - the word "ironically" wasn't missing from my original post.

I get the feeling you just can't win sometimes. People prefer a littles spat and opportunity to snipe at others rather than discussing anything. If anybody seriously wishes to engage in discussing Muslim culture as it really is, I'd be interested.

(Sigh - back to chores)

Growstuff,
Mea culpa ,Mea culpa

Lesley60, Thank for your voice of reason.

I can not read any more today as my 91yr neighbour s carer has failed to turn up for the second time.

I am going to help her, again as she is mortified and wet herself

She is a very ladylike woman, I feel so much compassion for her situation..

I shall go and remove my bossy boots 🙃

X posts 😄

Lesley60 I completely agree with you.

Callistemon21

utterbliss

Willow, If you read Growsstuff post the word ironically doesn't appear. She also fails to say this is not what she believes.

I try not to second guess someone or put words in their mouth.

It is my professional training.

I may disagree with growstuff sometimes (often? 😁) but in this case I agree that what you quote is not what she actually said.

She said:
^Ironically, they are Arabs and see Muslims from non-Arab countries as different and (dare I say it) inferior.^

I agree with what Callistemon21 wrote 😁

growstuff did preface it with the word ironically when writing of her son-in-laws parents when noticing their prejudice towards non Arab muslims.
I think ‘utterbliss’ that the posts which are ‘nested quotes’ to use another poster’s fine phrase have confused you on this issue.
Maybe a quick apology wouldn’t hurt?

utterbliss

Well Callistmon, that is telling me, I suppose no jam for me at teatime,

Go and sit on the norty step, no talking.

Well Callistmon, that is telling me, I suppose no jam for me at teatime,

OOPS. I am the first to admit when I misread a post. I got that wrong.

utterbliss

Maizied Please look again at Growstuff original post and not other Gns replies to my post.

In her original post the word IRONICAL is absent.

Please is there a Solicitor to fact check Growstuff original.

The word ironical is used by other Gns .

I would not second guess someone else's thoughts or put words in there mouth.

Growstuff oringal post does not state that she disagrees with the statement INFERIOR.

Please is there a Solicitor to fact check Growstuff original.

No need for legal advice.

If you can find and quote the original post in its entirety with time and date in case I missed it, then I'd be grateful.

Many thanks Tickingstuff, Elegran.

Maizied Please look again at Growstuff original post and not other Gns replies to my post.

In her original post the word IRONICAL is absent.

Please is there a Solicitor to fact check Growstuff original.

The word ironical is used by other Gns .

I would not second guess someone else's thoughts or put words in there mouth.

Growstuff oringal post does not state that she disagrees with the statement INFERIOR.