Immigration and migrants

Whilst I agree all these people are human beings and if they are genuine asylum seekers like Ukrainian people then they should be allowed in.
But we have to accept that there are to many people in our small country, some who are dying needlessly through lack of being able to get an appointment with a doctor, or being on a waiting list for years for an operation.
We also have to look at our schools being overcrowded and homeless people
It’s all very well the government are saying it’s because we live longer but what about the overpopulation of our small country surely we have to be able to look after ourselves before we can help others

Wheniwasyourage

Good post Cossy. It’s also worth remembering that there is no such thing as an illegal person. We have made it very difficult if not impossible for people to use legal routes to get here, but that makes the routes, not the people, “illegal”.

Exemplary post.

My heart goes out to these poor women and infants / babies / children and males that are only seeking a better life than the horrorific governments & terrible conditions that they come from.

It is truly extremely saddening.

ALL governments worldwide need to modernise their ASYLUM Departments.

utterbliss

Growsstuff, my point is you use the word INFERIOR.

If I said Welsh Christians were INFERIOR to British Christians

that is a prejudicial statement.

You could use the word different, that is not a prejudicial statement.
I hope you find this useful, and answers your question.

Clearly you didn't learn the significance of punctuation when you were at school.

Growstuff's actual wording and punctuation has been repeated to you twice.

She is not saying that she thinks some muslims are inferior.

Using the word 'inferior in a post is not irrefutable evidence of prejudice on the part of the poster... 🙄

For utterbliss - the post was on Tue 07-May-24 19:25:39, if you can't find it to check.

Growstuff

There is no reason why anybody has to tolerate bigotry and I don't.

One man’s bigotry is another man’s reasonable assessment of the facts.

This forum isn’t here to provide a sounding board for your views. I disagree with much of what you post but I tolerate it. You need to do likewise and accept others have differing viewpoints and you can’t casually dismiss them as bigotry.

utterbliss

Growsstuff, my point is you use the word INFERIOR.

If I said Welsh Christians were INFERIOR to British Christians

that is a prejudicial statement.

You could use the word different, that is not a prejudicial statement.
I hope you find this useful, and answers your question.

But if you said that^ "People from ???? think that Welsh Christians are inferior to ???? Christians"^ when you are NOT from ???? it would not mean that YOU think that, but you have noticed that some other people (the ones from ???? think it.

If you read Growstuff's post again, you will see what she actually said, not what you think she said.

Just as ironic is that you were equally as wrong about what she said as the people she was talking about were about their opinion of non-Arab Muslims - and just as quick to leap to condemn!!

It demonstrates that it is always a good idea to RTFP before flying off the handle.

utterbliss

Willow, If you read Growsstuff post the word ironically doesn't appear. She also fails to say this is not what she believes.

I try not to second guess someone or put words in their mouth.

It is my professional training.

I may disagree with growstuff sometimes (often? 😁) but in this case I agree that what you quote is not what she actually said.

She said:
Ironically, they are Arabs and see Muslims from non-Arab countries as different and (dare I say it) inferior.

GSM, Spot on.

Ironically, they are Arabs and see Muslims from non-Arab countries as different and (dare I say it) inferior

Yes, the Gulf States treat Muslim workers from the Indian sub-continent appallingly.

Willow, If you read Growsstuff post the word ironically doesn't appear. She also fails to say this is not what she believes.

I try not to second guess someone or put words in their mouth.

It is my professional training.

Growsstuff, my point is you use the word INFERIOR.

If I said Welsh Christians were INFERIOR to British Christians

that is a prejudicial statement.

You could use the word different, that is not a prejudicial statement.
I hope you find this useful, and answers your question.

Wyllow3

I'm confused. Growstuff actually said

" Ironically, they are Arabs and see Muslims from non-Arab countries as different and (dare I say it) inferior".

Not that she thought it so?

I know (sigh). People love reading what they want to believe, not what is actually written.

I'm confused. Growstuff actually said

" Ironically, they are Arabs and see Muslims from non-Arab countries as different and (dare I say it) inferior".

Not that she thought it so?

Oreo

Walking away from the screen is a good idea for those who may let emotions run them.
Also crap is subjective and works both ways.
The great thing about forums is to express our views about the world and what’s going on, to realise that we all have different views and not to sit on very high horses.

There is no reason why anybody has to tolerate bigotry and I don't.

I would suggest that many of those ‘looking after home or family’ are not caring for the elderly or sick, but are women who are required to stay at home and only to go out if escorted.

Wyllow3

The Stats also show (quote) "In 2021, people who identified as "Muslim" had the lowest percentage of people aged 16 to 64 years in employment (51.4% compared with 70.9% of the overall population); the this resulted from the high percentages of people who were students or looking after home or family in this group.
Care in different communities for the elderly or sick varies therefore the % who care at home has shown up on the stats.

That's already been pointed out Wyllow, but I guess it needs repeating - again and again - until the facts are acknowledged.

utterbliss

Growstuff I quote you "Muslims from a non-Arab background are inferior "
Surely this is prejudice.
You have been very quick to shoot other GNs down for being prejudiced in your view.

Can we not have a reasonable calm discussion without being rude

Yes, of course it is. Did you think Muslims are all the same?

What's your point?

The Stats also show (quote) "In 2021, people who identified as "Muslim" had the lowest percentage of people aged 16 to 64 years in employment (51.4% compared with 70.9% of the overall population); the this resulted from the high percentages of people who were students or looking after home or family in this group.
Care in different communities for the elderly or sick varies therefore the % who care at home has shown up on the stats.

Growstuff I quote you "Muslims from a non-Arab background are inferior "
Surely this is prejudice.
You have been very quick to shoot other GNs down for being prejudiced in your view.

Can we not have a reasonable calm discussion without being rude

Freya5
That’s true.
www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/religion/articles/religionbyhousinghealthemploymentandeducationenglandandwales/census2021

Casdon

Of the largest groups arriving in the UK:

Eritrea 50/50 Christian and Muslim
Vietnam largely Buddhist
Albania Islam/Christian/no religion

Large numbers come from Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq and Syria - all Muslim countries.

Casdon

I don’t understand why some people on here cannot admit that Muslims are from many different countries with different cultures, that not all boat migrants are Muslims, that most Muslim women work in normal jobs just like we did in the UK - and most of all I don’t understand why some people on here don’t see people who arrive by boat as individuals with a multitude of different reasons for arriving here.

Almost 70% Muslim women are unemployed. In fact unemployment for the Muslim community is about twice that of Christian Judaic community. In younger Muslims its even higher, 13% compared with 9% of the overall population, from the Guardian. So not sure were you get your stats from.

Walking away from the screen is a good idea for those who may let emotions run them.
Also crap is subjective and works both ways.
The great thing about forums is to express our views about the world and what’s going on, to realise that we all have different views and not to sit on very high horses.

Cossy

Oreo

“growstuff
PS. The point I was really making is that stereotypes seem to be everywhere on GN, especially of Muslims and young people. There are nearly two billion Muslims in the world. "They" (and it's not uncommon not to even give them a name - they're just "they") live in dozens of different countries, speak different languages and have different cultures. However, according to some posters on GN, Muslims are all lumped together and are stereotyped.
Think you are being way oversensitive as you mention you have Muslim family, a SIL I think.”

I don’t think she, or anyone else who agrees with her, is being way oversensitive or woke or not allowing anyone else to have an opinion.

We all are able to freely express our opinions, views, beliefs. However, sometimes, it appears, some on here demonise certain groups and refuse to accept they themselves just might come across as a tad bigoted.

We are primarily a Christian Country, as I keep hearing, sometimes the strong views here about certain cohorts doesn’t come across as very Christian.

You can think what you like. No, my son in law is not a Muslim, although his parents are and I've had a number of conversations with all of them from an insider's perspective. Is suspect they know a tad more than most GN posters about Muslim culture. Ironically, they are Arabs and see Muslims from non-Arab countries as different and (dare I say it) inferior.

Notwithstanding my own family, stereotyping on GN is rife. It's not just Muslims, but young people, poorer people (you name it). It's as though people live in their own little worlds and don't have much experience of people outside the bubble and find it difficult to realise that these people are individuals not labels. As for Muslims, I've read so much cr*p from some posters about "them" that I've literally had to walk away from my screen.

Just wanted to correct a point on FGM
As it occurs in 3 religions and predates Islam

www.forwarduk.org.uk/who-we-work-with/faith-community-leaders/fgm-and-religion/#:~:text=FGM%20is%20found%20in%20communities,it%20is%20their%20religious%20duty.