Immigration and migrants

GrannyGravy13

Cossy it really depends on whereabouts in Turkey you go/are.

We have a very close family member who has to spend one week in two/three just outside Istanbul for work. The attitudes of men towards women are mixed, but they are not appreciative of having a female boss

The tourist areas are different, but when the young men and women return to their homes (most of which are in the north) they revert to what their parents expect. I know this as our Turkish friend of 30 years married an American to escape Turkey, it took many many years for her family to accept.

I wasn’t in tourist areas, I was staying with a resident, in a residential apartment complex which is a mix of Turkish, and Russians and a few Brits.

Our niece’s husband comes from Turkey.

30 years is a long time ago, things have moved on.

GSM actually I agree that in some countries the subjugation of women is abhorrent. Has it not occurred to you that, perhaps, the young men who seek refuge here don’t want to be part of that. They want to grow up in an open, free, tolerant society, but are unable to go against their strict, repressive governments.

Cossy it really depends on whereabouts in Turkey you go/are.

We have a very close family member who has to spend one week in two/three just outside Istanbul for work. The attitudes of men towards women are mixed, but they are not appreciative of having a female boss

The tourist areas are different, but when the young men and women return to their homes (most of which are in the north) they revert to what their parents expect. I know this as our Turkish friend of 30 years married an American to escape Turkey, it took many many years for her family to accept.

Yes Katie, and a few years ago a young woman was gang raped in India and died as a consequence.

wyllow, of course I am aware of domestic violence in this country. It has happened since time immemorial. You cannot, however, compare it with the subjugation of women in many other countries, where men use women but expect to marry a virgin who is not allowed an education or to leave the home unaccompanied.

growstuff

Ooh! I think we should have a National Stereotype Day! At least it would be better than having one every day.

👏👏

BevSec

I completely agree with you GSM. I have spoken to a man who has worked closely with the immigrants and he said they put their own comfort ahead of their wives and children. People say they should respect our culture, but who is going to force them to do this? Our culture is very alien to them, I have seen this in Marrakesh.

I’ve spent a lot of time in Turkey as I have a very good friend who has a beautiful apartment there. Many many Turkish Muslim men absolutely adore their wives and children. My husband’s niece is married to a Turkish Muslim, they live here. He worships her and cherishes their beautiful son, who at 2.5years is learning both English and Turkish.

Please don’t generalise, many Muslims, men and women, have moved into this century and are embracing western ideas, as well their own culture.

Ooh! I think we should have a National Stereotype Day! At least it would be better than having one every day.

Repairing roads

BevSec

I completely agree with you GSM. I have spoken to a man who has worked closely with the immigrants and he said they put their own comfort ahead of their wives and children. People say they should respect our culture, but who is going to force them to do this? Our culture is very alien to them, I have seen this in Marrakesh.

One country I have travelled to is India, the way women are treated is appalling, women labouring on building sites carrying baskets of rubble on their heads, women reaping roads living in tents on the roadside with children playing in the gutter alongside them.
The whole culture is so bad women have to have separate carriages on the trains.

Why are we becoming so ashamed of being what we were born ? I am proud of my Welsh and English heritage and I am Bert proud to be an Australia . Nothing whatsoever to do with colour, religion or anything else. We have a great way of life, we are tolerant and respectful of others. I am sick to death of being told we are white oppressors, worse than anyone else. Having travelled a lot and lived in a few different places I can tell you we are definitely not what the ‘woke’ think. I just wish some of these people would try living in some of the Asian or African countries for a time . Especially China - we are white dogs, routinely.

I've worked with immigrants and some don't treat me with respect as I'm female. Some have refused to speak to me, they assume I'm wrong. Not all are like this.

Wyllow3

GSM you must be aware of rates of domestic and other violence against women within our very own home grown culture by men.

"That is the culture which is alien to so many of the immigrants".

There are of course known examples but to then generalise out - its tarring with same brush tactics. How do you know? How many refugees have you actually engaged with?

Guess immigrants don't abuse their women then. That's a lie.

growstuff

EEJit

Of course they are illegal. They have arrived without the necessary papers to make them legal, no visa, and no passport, some even lying about their ages.

Why should we accept and cater to them when other countries are either blocking them, or they are quickly deported?

They're not "illegal" under international law.

The illegal migration bill became law in July 2023.

I couldn't agree more.

I completely agree with you GSM. I have spoken to a man who has worked closely with the immigrants and he said they put their own comfort ahead of their wives and children. People say they should respect our culture, but who is going to force them to do this? Our culture is very alien to them, I have seen this in Marrakesh.

GSM you must be aware of rates of domestic and other violence against women within our very own home grown culture by men.

"That is the culture which is alien to so many of the immigrants".

There are of course known examples but to then generalise out - its tarring with same brush tactics. How do you know? How many refugees have you actually engaged with?

In the UK women are free to live their lives as they wish. They are entitled to respect. That is the culture which is alien to so many of the immigrants. I don’t know why I had to spell that out.

Incidentally BevSec how many of them do you really know? I bet you be shocked to find out that they have feelings and very similar aspirations to anybody else. You'd possibly also be surprised to find out that many people with pure British ancestry don't share your idea of culture.

BevSec

GSM I agree with everything you have posted. Their culture is so different to our own, our country us already changing and I feel very concerned about the future for our children and grandchildren.

British "culture" has changed in our lifetime and it's nothing to do with immigration. It's what happens. Individual and collective ideas and values change. Culture is not pickled in aspic, no matter how much some people would like time to stand still.

And who are "they" in your post?

BevSec

GSM I agree with everything you have posted. Their culture is so different to our own, our country us already changing and I feel very concerned about the future for our children and grandchildren.

How would you describe "our own" culture?

GSM I agree with everything you have posted. Their culture is so different to our own, our country us already changing and I feel very concerned about the future for our children and grandchildren.

Over 1200 years ago, this is what was written of the Vikings who sacked Lindisfarne, "Heathen men came and miserably destroyed God’s church on Lindisfarne, with plunder and slaughter".

People were terrified and appalled, but despite the atrocity, Christianity survived at Lindisfarne and within less than 200 years the Vikings in Britain converted to Christianity. They integrated and nearly every single person with English ancestry has some Viking DNA. Those "heathens" are part of who we are as individuals and as a society.

That's how the history of populations evolves and there is nothing about our times to suggest we are any different or have somehow managed to stop the way history works.

Interesting comparisons.

I think most of us do know the history of our Isles and that the Vikings arrived and struck terror here.
However, they embraced Christianity along with their own Norse gods and customs and integrated into society here.

Do you think that Muslims arriving in Western Europe will abandon Islam in favour of Christianity and similarly integrate?
Some of those I know have, some having arrived as invited refugees and others through normal channels. However, the numbers now are unprecedented.

PuddyCat

The ones that worry me the most are those that have been refused leave to remain, usually because they've committed violent crimes, but then nothing is done to actually remove them from our country. Our governments lethargy puts us all at risk as the incidents below testify.

There was the horrific murder of seven-year-old Emily Jones in Bolton by a failed asylum seeker in March 2020.
In June 2022, there was a brutal triple stabbing in a Reading park by a failed Libyan asylum seeker who the government had granted temporary leave to remain despite having criminal convictions and being in a terrorist group.
There was the murder of 32-year-old Lorraine Cox in Exeter in September 2020 by a failed asylum claimant.
Asylum seeker Badreddin Abadlla Adam – stabbed six people, including a police officer, while on a violent rampage in a hotel in Glasgow in June 2020.
An Afghan asylum seeker – Samiulahaq Akbari – tried to murder a complete stranger in Thornton Heath, London while ‘fuelled’ by a desire to kill English people. He was convicted of attempted murder over the rampage which took place on 8 January 2019, just 12 days after he was released from prison for another assault.
Kuwaiti hit and run driver – Hadi Hamid – who nearly killed two teenagers in Middlesbrough in October 2017 after ploughing into them with his car (and leaving them with life-changing injuries) was allowed to stay in the UK – even though his refugee status was revoked. Hamid was sentenced to four years behind bars in February 2018 and was ordered to be deported, yet he was released from prison in October 2019 and remains in the UK.
Rachid Redouane – one of the perpetrators of the June 2017 London Bridge attacks, in which 11 people were killed and 48 injured (21 critically) – was a Moroccan-born failed asylum seeker. After having his 2009 claim for asylum rejected, he remained here before going on to live in Ireland three years later. He then returned and (alongside two others) committed the attack.
Officials missed six chances to kick illegal immigrant Hani Khalaf out of Britain before he murdered a carer. The 22-year-old Egyptian bludgeoned Jairo Medina, 62, to death in London’s Hyde Park in August 2016 for his mobile phone and a few pounds. Khalaf was free to live in the UK despite falsely claiming to be a Syrian refugee when he arrived in Kent two years earlier hidden in a lorry. The career criminal had previously been arrested at least six times for theft and fraud, but was released rather than deported as he repeatedly lied about his identity.
Shahin Darvish-Narenjbon, a failed asylum seeker who killed his 87-year-old "surrogate grandmother" who had offered him a place to study and live.
Lawangeen Abdulrahimzai who had already murdered 2 people in Serbia, was subsequently refused asylum in Norway but came to the UK the same month and was given leave to remain. He went on to murder his 3rd victim, Thomas Roberts, in Bournemouth shortly after.
Moroccan asylum seeker Ahmed Alid, 45, stabbed 70-year-old Terence Carney multiple times in Hartlepool in October 2023.
Emad Al Swealmeen was refused asylum but nothing was done to remove him from the UK. His bomb device exploded in a taxi outside Liverpool Women's Hospital on 14 November 2021 fortunately only killing himself and not his intended targets.

There have been too many of these incidents and every time it happens, it becomes apparent that signs and indicators have been overlooked or ignored.

In this instance I actually agree you 100%.

You know full well that I vote Conservative and will continue to do so - and that I am not alone in that on GN.

It doesn't matter who you vote for and raising the question is a red herring aimed to deflect attention from the main issue. As far as I'm aware Labour, under Keir Starmer, has no more idea what to do with unparalleled immigration than any other party. The only party leader who did have some ideas and suggestions was Farage and we all know what happened to him. I've read growstuff's post about invading Vikings at Lindisfarne and, apart from awarding that poster the award for "The 2024 Whatabout of The Year Award", I'd also like to point out that raping and pillaging settlements to gain control of them has become very unpopular since the International Humanitarian Law treaty was signed in 1864. It would seem to be a regressive step to reintroduce it now.