What should the Tories do now?

Pammie1

MaizieD

Plus a lot can happen between now and whenever the GE is called.
Like what, Oreo?. What could happen that would suddenly make people turn back to the tories?

Dickens' excellent post at 9:18 this evening is a pretty comprehensive catalogue of what is really peeing people off and the indications are that the tories aren't going to do a thing about rectifying any of them.

Instead, today's tory gems seem to have been Sunak's plan to bypass GPs and install teams of unqualified people to assess people who are in receipt of sickness benefits as to their fitness for work (hasn't this been done before and wasn't it the cause of untold misery?) and a suggestion from a tory MP that postal voting is abolished. Just want people wanted, of course....

Teams of unqualified assessors have been employed since 2013 when PIP was introduced and the Work Capability Assessment system was brought in line with it. It’s been causing untold misery to sick and disabled people ever since. I don’t know what Sunak thinks is any different about it, except that the rules for both benefits will be tightened so much that ever higher levels of sickness and disability will be disregarded. And of course, abolishing postal voting will hit the same people, so they won’t be able to show their displeasure at the polls.

Spot on

👏👏👏

growstuff

Dickens:

"Labour are hoping to work more closely with Europol and Europe on this issue to find practical and realistic ways of dealing with the crisis because that is what is needed, something the present government have been reluctant to do since Brexit for fear of offending their Brexit-based supporters."

Not only for fear of offending Brexit-based supporters. The budget for the National Crime Agency, which is the UK's link with Interpol and Europol, has been halved since 2010. Spending money on public services isn't popular in some corners ... and now we're seeing the consequences.

We are working, according to Reuters, and have a new deal with Frontex, via the EU, re illegal migration and traffickers. Allows the two sides border agencies to work closer together. Agreement signed in London in Feb. 24. Stops short of sending them back to the safe country they left, but its a start.
So what else could Labour do that is not being done. I won't hold my breath.

Freya5

growstuff

Dickens:

"Labour are hoping to work more closely with Europol and Europe on this issue to find practical and realistic ways of dealing with the crisis because that is what is needed, something the present government have been reluctant to do since Brexit for fear of offending their Brexit-based supporters."

Not only for fear of offending Brexit-based supporters. The budget for the National Crime Agency, which is the UK's link with Interpol and Europol, has been halved since 2010. Spending money on public services isn't popular in some corners ... and now we're seeing the consequences.

We are working, according to Reuters, and have a new deal with Frontex, via the EU, re illegal migration and traffickers. Allows the two sides border agencies to work closer together. Agreement signed in London in Feb. 24. Stops short of sending them back to the safe country they left, but its a start.
So what else could Labour do that is not being done. I won't hold my breath.

The UK lost access to Eurodac as a result of Brexit. That is one of the essential elements which Labour will doubtless renegotiate joining.
www.thalesgroup.com/en/markets/digital-identity-and-security/government/customer-cases/eurodac#:~:text=As%20of%201%20January%202021,for%20tourism%2C%20studies%20or%20illegally.

It’s not up to me to make the rules.

Germanshepherdsmum

It’s not up to me to make the rules.

That’s a relief

Germanshepherdsmum

No, I wouldn’t trust the patient’s GP to make an objective assessment. Would you trust a lawyer to sit in judgement of their own client in court?

Absolutely not the same thing. The last time I looked lawyers weren’t subject to the hypocratic oath.

LizzieDrip

^I didn’t suggest that the unbiased assessor should not be medically qualified^

So GSM should these assessors undertake a 5 year degree in order to be recognised by the General Medical Council as being medically qualified? Or will there be some other system of deeming one ‘medically qualified’?

At the moment, staff recruited from NHS, ranging from paramedics, physiotherapists, general nurses etc, are qualified healthcare professionals. The problem is with their experience. Disability assessment is wide ranging and their experience won’t cover most of the conditions they’re asked to assess.

The DWP thinks that a few days’ training as ‘disability analysts’ addresses this. It doesn’t - even with a medical background. A ‘qualified’ assessor can override even consultants reports. What most people who haven’t engaged with the process don’t realise is that assessors don’t make benefit decisions. They provide a report to the DWP decision maker who isn’t medically qualified and who relies on the report to make the decision on the level of benefit or even whether an award is made at all.

How would anyone here feel if they were subject to this process ? You have a genuine condition and provide medical evidence to that effect - potentially up to consultant level report, and then the DWP rejects your claim based on a report provided by someone qualified far below the level of the healthcare professional you are involved with. This is what sick and disabled people are facing every day.

Pammie1

Germanshepherdsmum

No, I wouldn’t trust the patient’s GP to make an objective assessment. Would you trust a lawyer to sit in judgement of their own client in court?

Absolutely not the same thing. The last time I looked lawyers weren’t subject to the hypocratic oath.

It’s very much the same thing and the Hippocratic oath is irrelevant.

I'm not voting, probably the same as millions of others. The Tories are worn out and have no answers, but Labour are no better and the Lib Dems have a leader who caused the Horizon scandal. I can't see Reform breaking through because of the voting system, so I'm staying at home. Never been one to vote for the same party all the time- I've voted for 4 different parties in my lifetime- but none of them this time.

Perhaps you could instead look at the people actually standing - choose whom you feel will best help constituents.

I do find it hard to understand not voting tho.

Cumbrianmale56

I'm not voting, probably the same as millions of others. The Tories are worn out and have no answers, but Labour are no better and the Lib Dems have a leader who caused the Horizon scandal. I can't see Reform breaking through because of the voting system, so I'm staying at home. Never been one to vote for the same party all the time- I've voted for 4 different parties in my lifetime- but none of them this time.

That's just a cop-out, IMO. Even if you just spoil your paper at least you will be counted in the turn-out figures. If you don't vote, the party you want least might get in, and you won't have a leg to stand on if you want to complain. Please reconsider.

Not voting is indeed a cop out, as is spoiling your ballot paper. It’s an insult to those who fought so hard, and even gave their lives, to give you the right to vote.

Hear hear GSM!

Germanshepherdsmum

Not voting is indeed a cop out, as is spoiling your ballot paper. It’s an insult to those who fought so hard, and even gave their lives, to give you the right to vote.

This. I find it rather smug when people think they’re on the moral high ground by not voting. No you are not, you’re abdicating any responsibility for the state of our nation

Who should I vote for the party who support a woman who says women who experience sexual assault are asking for it or the Tories, please explain the morality in making that choice rather than not voting.

You are voting for a candidate in your own constituency, Galaxy not for a party. You couldn’t possibly approve of the views of everyone in any party, but you can choose the local candidate whom you agree with on most topics.

Can only speak for the Party I'm in, and my answer is that "the Party" doesn't support that POV nor does anyone I know in it.

I didn't want her in the LP, but it's not going to change who I vote for. Lots of good people in locally caring and active, a good Labour MP - so its not a make or break.

Galaxy When deciding who to vote for I think you should look much wider than this one single issue. Look at the party’s manifestos and also consider the strength of your local candidates. Elphicke will be history in no time; how the country is governed will be important for much much longer.

Iam64

Germanshepherdsmum

Not voting is indeed a cop out, as is spoiling your ballot paper. It’s an insult to those who fought so hard, and even gave their lives, to give you the right to vote.

This. I find it rather smug when people think they’re on the moral high ground by not voting. No you are not, you’re abdicating any responsibility for the state of our nation

Hear, hear GSM and Iam64.

Not-voting is not a protest - because politicians don't know who you are protesting against and see it simply as a low-turnout.

Everyone should get out there and vote - even if we have the FPTP system.

People who live in constituencies where the result is a given - so don't bother... well, it's a given because you don't bother!

And writing 'none-of-the-above' simply records as a wasted paper - no-one is putting those ballot papers in a separate box and counting them to present to the parties to show voters' contempt! So it's meaningless.

Regardless of which party you support, just vote!

I,voted for our good Labour MP despite not seeing Corbyn as a potentially good pm. My negative views on Corbyn as leader have not changed but I often wonder if we’d be I this awful mess if he hadn’t out off so many voters.
Our mp lost by 400 votes - fingers crossed our current candidate wins the seat back

Galaxy

Who should I vote for the party who support a woman who says women who experience sexual assault are asking for it or the Tories, please explain the morality in making that choice rather than not voting.

I think simply put, if you don’t vote your opinion on political issues counts for nothing. If you don’t like any of the available options, spoiling your ballot paper at least means you care enough about who is in charge to turn up to vote.

Casdon

Freya5

growstuff

Dickens:

"Labour are hoping to work more closely with Europol and Europe on this issue to find practical and realistic ways of dealing with the crisis because that is what is needed, something the present government have been reluctant to do since Brexit for fear of offending their Brexit-based supporters."

Not only for fear of offending Brexit-based supporters. The budget for the National Crime Agency, which is the UK's link with Interpol and Europol, has been halved since 2010. Spending money on public services isn't popular in some corners ... and now we're seeing the consequences.

We are working, according to Reuters, and have a new deal with Frontex, via the EU, re illegal migration and traffickers. Allows the two sides border agencies to work closer together. Agreement signed in London in Feb. 24. Stops short of sending them back to the safe country they left, but its a start.
So what else could Labour do that is not being done. I won't hold my breath.

The UK lost access to Eurodac as a result of Brexit. That is one of the essential elements which Labour will doubtless renegotiate joining.
www.thalesgroup.com/en/markets/digital-identity-and-security/government/customer-cases/eurodac#:~:text=As%20of%201%20January%202021,for%20tourism%2C%20studies%20or%20illegally.

I think France will demand even more money for that. We should be fingerprinting these people on arrival, DNA testing too.

I think the way people view non voters is possibly the way I now view the labour party's stance on violence against women and girls. Their point of view on this issue now counts for nothing.
I am a member of the labour party, I know their manifesto backwards, thanks. I am very aware that no party represents all my views but everyone has a line. I actually wholeheartedly supported Starmers pragmatism and even authoritarianism (as that is what it was) in making the party electable. Dear god I even gritted my teeth through his some women have a penis phase. If Farage was welcomed into the fold would that be ok. There is a line for people, and this was mine.

I’m not disputing your view at all Galaxy, we all have a line. I just think not voting at all is the worst of cop outs for anybody because as far as the outcome from the ballot box is concerned it is worthless.