Is Islamophobia In Europe A Growing Concern?

GrannyGravy13

Wyllow3

It is, but not to assume (not saying you are!) that it is supported by most people of Muslim origin, who wish to lead the ordinary lives we've described.

You are correct, I would never and have never lumped all Muslims together.

As a family we have many Muslim friends, all different, some women cover their heads some don’t, some adhere to their faith more than others.

There are some men we know who have gone back to their birthplace (or that of their parents) for an arranged marriage. At least three of which I know for certain, that their wives have little English, do not venture far if at all without their husbands and the children do not attend preschool/nursery/playgroups before compulsory school age.

According to the men they are happy and have no desire to mix or interact locally.

I think it's partly a generational issue. Between 1979 and 1985 I lived in inner city Manchester and was the only white person in the road. My son naturally would go outside and would play with the children and only and very gradually did the mums come out and talk to me a bit, but they often had little English.

But their children went to local schools and no doubt many are now the very people we have described who do mix and do the jobs we've described.

growstuff

Oreo

growstuff

Oreo

growstuff says ( unbelievably!) ‘who’s perceiving the threat? And why?’
Unless you live in a cave why would you even write that?

Because they are genuine questions. I'd like an explanation from the people who write about such things. Maybe they should look at their own reasoning.

And, no, I don't live in a cave and I do follow current affairs quite closely.

Stop being disingenuous.

No! Why should I stop? Maybe people like you should stop ranting.

Ranting?😄
Because I view your opinion as disingenuous, I don’t get into forum spats but that did make me laugh.

growstuff

Has everybody forgotten the Denmark Place fire, Hungerford, the Clerkenwell cinema fire, the Admiral Duncan nail bombing, the Cumbria shootings, the Plymouth shooting or the murder of Jo Cox?

How telling that you forgot David Amess.

Ah! So you do recognise that Islamophobia is a fear of Muslims!

Fear of just about any group can be whipped up by publicity and the media.

Yes any group can be demonized Skin Heads, Hells Angels, most dangerous of all are the liberal lefties who ignore the threat.

I have already stated up thread that I Fear Islam and there is plenty in the news currently to justify that, if I’m in a minority of one so be it
Maybe when they reject terrorism I will change my mind

Katie590 well no actually, it's more complex than fear, "dislike or prejudice" is the more official definition.

This means that people dislike or are prejudiced based on stereotypes or preconceived ideas against a whole demographic. It is of course always wrong to dislike or be prejudiced against a whole demographic, always, no exceptions.

Katie590

Ah! So you do recognise that Islamophobia is a fear of Muslims!

Fear of just about any group can be whipped up by publicity and the media.

Yes any group can be demonized Skin Heads, Hells Angels, most dangerous of all are the liberal lefties who ignore the threat.

I have already stated up thread that I Fear Islam and there is plenty in the news currently to justify that, if I’m in a minority of one so be it
Maybe when they reject terrorism I will change my mind

So what do you propose is done about your fear?

As I'm probably a "liberal lefty", I guess you fear me too . What are you going to do about the danger I'm presumably causing?

Fear is not the same as dislike or prejudice.
I dislike lots of things, but I’m not frightened of them. Nor do I have prejudice against things I dislike, I simply avoid them. So I dislike shellfish and so I don’t eat shellfish, but I’m neither frightened of it nor prejudiced against it, other people can eat it if they want to.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Wyllow3

Dickens, I think those sort of memes affect young men of all cultures who feel insecure. Look at the video games and thriller movies with exaggerated violence and an us and them mentality. More obvious in the USA where far right hate groups openly claim their land is ‘sovereign territory’

Again, we are being directed towards what divides not what we have in common.

Dickens, I think those sort of memes affect young men of all cultures who feel insecure.

That was my point really. That it's not so much the religion itself, but what - if it's been 're-calibrated' - it can offer to such men.

There are lots of unpleasant offerings on the internet that lure vulnerable young men. Andrew Tate, Incel groups, Far right Neo Nazi groups, Islamic terrorist groups like IS etc etc However, some choose to focus on one type of group and then ascribe it to a whole religion ie 1.9 billion people. Why? Racism. Islamic terrorist groups have about as much in common with most Muslims as I have with a Far Right Neo Nazi group ie absolutely nothing apart from the colour of my skin.

Yes.

None of the other groups we are told about have been able to so radically alter our lives.
Going through security to get on a flight, not being allowed to take any liquids through. Why? Having to remove shoes before getting on a flight. Why? Massive steel bollards all over London protecting our government offices and important buildings. Why? Security searches to enter theatres, museums, courts, galleries, and many other public buildings. Why?
It’s not because of the Methodists is it?

Late to this as I’ve been out
Grooming Gangs - the exploitation and abuse of vulnerable girls and boys in Rochdale etc was largely committed by men of Asian Muslim heritage. It involved taxi drivers, take away food outlets and other groups of largely male night workers.
Drug dealing and sexual exploitation of vulnerable girls and boys was often perpetrated by white men working the doors in clubs and bars
Sexual abuse and organised exploitation of girls and boys in scouts, cricket.football/name your sport / youth groups, residential care homes is largely carried out by men who work in those organisations.
The key thing is that perpetrators of child sexual exploitation and abuse are usually men, the children always vulnerable for different reasons.
Most convicted paedophiles in the uk are white

maddyone

None of the other groups we are told about have been able to so radically alter our lives.
Going through security to get on a flight, not being allowed to take any liquids through. Why? Having to remove shoes before getting on a flight. Why? Massive steel bollards all over London protecting our government offices and important buildings. Why? Security searches to enter theatres, museums, courts, galleries, and many other public buildings. Why?
It’s not because of the Methodists is it?

Always good to have a questioning mind though.

Good post Iam.
I just want to add something I’ve said before, and that is that the largest group of abusers is bound to be white, because white people are the largest number of people in the population. Unless we were to talk about percentages, then we have no idea which group are proportionally abusing more children, and it could well be that the percentages could be similar, because as you say, they’re all men. Well I think there have been some women, but I think they’re very much in the minority.

Yes Zakouma it is.
But I already know the answers, and you apparently don’t.

foxie48

There are lots of unpleasant offerings on the internet that lure vulnerable young men. Andrew Tate, Incel groups, Far right Neo Nazi groups, Islamic terrorist groups like IS etc etc However, some choose to focus on one type of group and then ascribe it to a whole religion ie 1.9 billion people. Why? Racism. Islamic terrorist groups have about as much in common with most Muslims as I have with a Far Right Neo Nazi group ie absolutely nothing apart from the colour of my skin.

This. Well said foxie48.

maddyone

Yes Zakouma it is.
But I already know the answers, and you apparently don’t.

I suspect she does know.

So what do you think should be done about it?

maddyone

Good post Iam.
I just want to add something I’ve said before, and that is that the largest group of abusers is bound to be white, because white people are the largest number of people in the population. Unless we were to talk about percentages, then we have no idea which group are proportionally abusing more children, and it could well be that the percentages could be similar, because as you say, they’re all men. Well I think there have been some women, but I think they’re very much in the minority.

Great! So you know whom to blame. What do you think should be done?

What do you mean Growstuff?

maddyone

None of the other groups we are told about have been able to so radically alter our lives.
Going through security to get on a flight, not being allowed to take any liquids through. Why? Having to remove shoes before getting on a flight. Why? Massive steel bollards all over London protecting our government offices and important buildings. Why? Security searches to enter theatres, museums, courts, galleries, and many other public buildings. Why?
It’s not because of the Methodists is it?

This is for a number of reasons which include Muslim terrorists, but it doesn't mean I conclude either all terrorists are Muslim nor Muslims are all supporters in any way at all.

There have been waves of terrorism throughout history: (done my research won't bore you with details just google)

- whats different now is how the world has shrunk travel and communications and social media wise

maddyone

Yes Zakouma it is.
But I already know the answers, and you apparently don’t.

Rather rude but moving on, I assume a lot of these security measures are just that. They are to keep the public safe from threats.

Now do they work or are they infact performance theatre?
Are they to keep the public safe only from Muslim terrorists?

Just be glad we don't live in the USA....worth running eyes down the lists and who is involved.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_terrorism_in_the_United_States

maddyone

None of the other groups we are told about have been able to so radically alter our lives.
Going through security to get on a flight, not being allowed to take any liquids through. Why? Having to remove shoes before getting on a flight. Why? Massive steel bollards all over London protecting our government offices and important buildings. Why? Security searches to enter theatres, museums, courts, galleries, and many other public buildings. Why?
It’s not because of the Methodists is it?

Interestingly though more lives would be saved with better aircraft controllers, pilots with better mental health and less alcohol consumption, a more proactive safety culture in Boeing and ensuring birds are kept away from runways! tbh I don't see how a quick handbag search or a some bollards has radically altered anyone's life, it certainly hasn't changed mine. However, I have a pretty pragmatic approach to life. when I've got stuck in a long line at an airport, I don't think it's all the fault of Muslims I just think the airport management needs a kick up the a..e!