General Election to be called today?

It would be instructive to have a definition of 'average'.

A tiny percentage of the population sends their children to private school. They cannot be called 'average'.

Germanshepherdsmum

Nowadays you have to live within the catchment area, no option of driving a significant distance to a ‘better’ state school.

Not round here, parents put their preferred choice of schools in order on the form, catchment area is not the overriding decider.

You’re lucky! It was for my son.

I have a feeling this is going to be a hat trick 😉

Remember when the polls said Labour would win last time and Corbyn was itching to get into No 10? They suffered the worst defeat since WWII.

Remember the Brexit Vote when all the polls and pundits were saying we would remain in the EU and those famous words echoed out. “The British people have voted and they voted to Leave the EU”.

I believe the Conservatives will get in again.

Maizie, the fact that a small number of people send their children to independent schools does not mean that within that number there are not ‘average’ people. Two working parents each earning an ‘average’ salary could make the choice to pay for a child’s education.
www.forbes.com/uk/advisor/business/average-uk-salary-by-age/

vegansrock

We’ve been gaslighted into believing that we can’t afford libraries, youth services, probation services, social care , clean water, roads without potholes etc etc but we can afford huge payments for building unused Brexit borders , contracts for privatised companies supplying the NHS at inflated prices, profiteering by Tory donors, private helicopters and private jets for government ministers. It’s led many to believe we must continue this decline.

I live in a commuter belt village (not big enough to be called a town)

There are two libraries, 15 minutes walk in my road, the closer one five minutes walk away on a different road.

We have a Sure Start Centre, under used.

The senior schools have youth clubs along with after school activities, along with their own swimming pools.

The three closest primary schools (two in my road, and attended by GC) have swimming pools.

Two council run leisure centres, gym, pool, etc.

Two church run youth clubs one with skate park.

Not every area is on its knees, but acknowledging this doesn’t suit the anti Conservatives rhetoric.

nanna8

The Labour Party are always full of good ideas but they never seem to be able to manage the economy so people vote them in, they seem to be compassionate and ‘right’ minded but the truth is things for the average Joe Blow get worse, not better. Hope I am wrong but I wouldn’t count on it.

It’s a fallacy about Labour not managing the economy. If you actually look at the figures across the last few decades I think you’ll find expenditure is more or less equal. I hardly think this govt has “managed the economy”

Germanshepherdsmum

*Maizie*, the fact that a small number of people send their children to independent schools does not mean that within that number there are not ‘average’ people. Two working parents each earning an ‘average’ salary could make the choice to pay for a child’s education.
www.forbes.com/uk/advisor/business/average-uk-salary-by-age/

I do agree, when my son attended his prep school back in the late 80’s/early 90’s he had a wide mix of friends, mix of scholarship boys (him), two working parents (mum working just to cover school fees), but overwhelmingly wealthy families who had multi generation family members attending the school. So “average” people were very much in the minority, a minority of a minority who choose to educate their children in the private sector.

Hear, hear GrannyGravy. 👏👏👏

GrannyGravy13

vegansrock

We’ve been gaslighted into believing that we can’t afford libraries, youth services, probation services, social care , clean water, roads without potholes etc etc but we can afford huge payments for building unused Brexit borders , contracts for privatised companies supplying the NHS at inflated prices, profiteering by Tory donors, private helicopters and private jets for government ministers. It’s led many to believe we must continue this decline.

I live in a commuter belt village (not big enough to be called a town)

There are two libraries, 15 minutes walk in my road, the closer one five minutes walk away on a different road.

We have a Sure Start Centre, under used.

The senior schools have youth clubs along with after school activities, along with their own swimming pools.

The three closest primary schools (two in my road, and attended by GC) have swimming pools.

Two council run leisure centres, gym, pool, etc.

Two church run youth clubs one with skate park.

Not every area is on its knees, but acknowledging this doesn’t suit the anti Conservatives rhetoric.

I think that is unfair. My daughter lives in a very middle class wealdon village, where life is extremely pleasant indeed. All the facilities you describe and some are available including a minor public school (Lancing College) but go say 5-10 miles as the crow flies you come across a very different world indeed, where children are on average smaller, poor diet, poorer health outcomes, worse educational facilities and much financially poorer with nowhere near the type of facilities available to them that are available to my grandchildren.

These are the children I very much want Labour to help because the Tories have stripped so much away from them over the years.

Katie590

Whitewavemark2

Also paying for a decent NHS, education, good policing, border control, defence etc. should not be such an alien thing.

Who on earth else is going to pay for it if not the citizens of the country in which they live.

Decent public services makes for a very civilised society.

As long as everyone realizes that improvements are not going be conjured out of thin air, either taxation is going to increase or services are going to be more expensive.

If you think austerity will end, think again.

I don't think anyone is expecting miracles after so long under an 'anti-public service' regime. Of course taxation will need to increase, and yes, yet again it will be those who work who pay it, and yes, that is unfair. But if taxes rise to cover public services then people won't be spending money on the things those services provide.

Spending on public services is not Austerity. Austerity is cutting public services to save money - quite the opposite. I would try much like to see Austerity end, and recognise that this will mean an increase in taxation, but IMO it is a price worth paying.

Casdon

Freya5

MaizieD

Joseann

Who on earth else is going to pay for it if not the citizens of the country in which they live.
That's the trouble for me with Labour. They like to bang on and say that it's the wealthy they are targeting, but the real rich won't particularly care much anyway. It is the average hardworking citizen, (like with VAT on school fees), who will feel it most, so just be honest and say.

Just who is this 'average hardworking citizen'' who is to be hit by VAT on school fees, Joseann?

By many criteria the fact of paying for privilege immediately takes people out of the 'average' group...

So my family who borrowed and sacrificed to send child to private school, where he thrived, away from an awful state school where bullying was rife if a child didn't want to join the sheeple, nothing was done.
They are average hard workers.
Service personnel, being sent abroad on a regular basis, wanting stability for children's schooling, average defending the country style parents. Not every one who goes to private school are from wealthy families. Also scholar ships for state school pupils. Should we take that away too. Because if vat is added it will stop your average families from having a choice. Hey let's hammer them because they're all from a priviledg background.

There’s a choice though, I drove my son 16 miles each way every day so he could go to a better state school. It’s those who have the least resources whose children lose out because they have no choice, not those who can ‘scrape together’ an alternative education.

Well good for you. If you can get in one.

Primrose53

I have a feeling this is going to be a hat trick 😉

Remember when the polls said Labour would win last time and Corbyn was itching to get into No 10? They suffered the worst defeat since WWII.

Remember the Brexit Vote when all the polls and pundits were saying we would remain in the EU and those famous words echoed out. “The British people have voted and they voted to Leave the EU”.

I believe the Conservatives will get in again.

We’ll hold you to that. Hope your hat tastes good.

Our youngest three children also attended a good secondary comprehensive school way out of catchment area. The eldest had to sit a selection entrance test, the other two came in on the “sibling” ticket. It was an hour bus ride each way, I was working full time in the opposite direction so couldn’t drive them.

GrannyGravy13

vegansrock

We’ve been gaslighted into believing that we can’t afford libraries, youth services, probation services, social care , clean water, roads without potholes etc etc but we can afford huge payments for building unused Brexit borders , contracts for privatised companies supplying the NHS at inflated prices, profiteering by Tory donors, private helicopters and private jets for government ministers. It’s led many to believe we must continue this decline.

I live in a commuter belt village (not big enough to be called a town)

There are two libraries, 15 minutes walk in my road, the closer one five minutes walk away on a different road.

We have a Sure Start Centre, under used.

The senior schools have youth clubs along with after school activities, along with their own swimming pools.

The three closest primary schools (two in my road, and attended by GC) have swimming pools.

Two council run leisure centres, gym, pool, etc.

Two church run youth clubs one with skate park.

Not every area is on its knees, but acknowledging this doesn’t suit the anti Conservatives rhetoric.

Similar set up in my " impoverished area",run well by Conservatives. Now people have decided a hung council would be better, time will tell, but I won't hold my breath.

Primrose53

I have a feeling this is going to be a hat trick 😉

Remember when the polls said Labour would win last time and Corbyn was itching to get into No 10? They suffered the worst defeat since WWII.

Remember the Brexit Vote when all the polls and pundits were saying we would remain in the EU and those famous words echoed out. “The British people have voted and they voted to Leave the EU”.

I believe the Conservatives will get in again.

Do remember it was won by a very small percentage, based on half-truths, (whether you’re prepared to admit this or not), if this had been a GE it would have been a hung parliament.

Freya5

Casdon

Freya5

MaizieD

Joseann

Who on earth else is going to pay for it if not the citizens of the country in which they live.
That's the trouble for me with Labour. They like to bang on and say that it's the wealthy they are targeting, but the real rich won't particularly care much anyway. It is the average hardworking citizen, (like with VAT on school fees), who will feel it most, so just be honest and say.

Just who is this 'average hardworking citizen'' who is to be hit by VAT on school fees, Joseann?

By many criteria the fact of paying for privilege immediately takes people out of the 'average' group...

So my family who borrowed and sacrificed to send child to private school, where he thrived, away from an awful state school where bullying was rife if a child didn't want to join the sheeple, nothing was done.
They are average hard workers.
Service personnel, being sent abroad on a regular basis, wanting stability for children's schooling, average defending the country style parents. Not every one who goes to private school are from wealthy families. Also scholar ships for state school pupils. Should we take that away too. Because if vat is added it will stop your average families from having a choice. Hey let's hammer them because they're all from a priviledg background.

There’s a choice though, I drove my son 16 miles each way every day so he could go to a better state school. It’s those who have the least resources whose children lose out because they have no choice, not those who can ‘scrape together’ an alternative education.

Well good for you. If you can get in one.

We all make choices Freya5. There’s no ‘good for you’ about it. People who send their children to private schools have choices. Over the course of one child’s education it’s cheaper to move to a house in the catchment population of your preferred state school than it is to pay for a private education. Many middle class parents do that too.

In the financial ending 2022, the median household disposable income in the UK was £32,300. Disposable income means what's left after direct taxes, NI and repayment of students loans.

In this case, the "median" is used as the average ie half of households have more and half less that £32,300. It's also worth pointing out that this is "household" income, so could be two working parents.

The fees for some of the most expensive private schools are more than £32,300 a year. I realise that some charge less, but I don't see that the "median" household would have enough to afford private school fees, even if it scrimped and saved.

It's strange that so many people seem to think they're average, whereas in reality they are better off than average.

The "average" family sends its children to state schools and has seen them struggle as class sizes have increased, minority subjects have been cut, buildings are becoming delapidated and provision for special needs has decreased.

GrannyGravy13

vegansrock

We’ve been gaslighted into believing that we can’t afford libraries, youth services, probation services, social care , clean water, roads without potholes etc etc but we can afford huge payments for building unused Brexit borders , contracts for privatised companies supplying the NHS at inflated prices, profiteering by Tory donors, private helicopters and private jets for government ministers. It’s led many to believe we must continue this decline.

I live in a commuter belt village (not big enough to be called a town)

There are two libraries, 15 minutes walk in my road, the closer one five minutes walk away on a different road.

We have a Sure Start Centre, under used.

The senior schools have youth clubs along with after school activities, along with their own swimming pools.

The three closest primary schools (two in my road, and attended by GC) have swimming pools.

Two council run leisure centres, gym, pool, etc.

Two church run youth clubs one with skate park.

Not every area is on its knees, but acknowledging this doesn’t suit the anti Conservatives rhetoric.

Well, I live in a growing town in Conservative-run Essex County Council. We have a Conservative MP and a mix of Conservative and independent councillors.

The town has one library, which is forever having its hours and services cut, no SureStart centre (although a charity does quite a good job of providing some of the services the council did), one secondary school (no swimming pool), one leisure centre with one swimming pool (run by a private contractor). The primary schools don't have swimming pools (in fact, it's very difficult to get a place in any of them). There's no police station for miles, no dentist taking NHS patients, two GP practices, where it's almost impossible to get an appointment, a poor bus service, but many potholes.

We sound like neighbours, growstuff.

The (Tory) council keeps signing off housebuilding on every blade of grass, without building schools, GP surgeries or making any other improvements to the infrastructure.

People are paying £££ for houses on new estates which are marketed as being in the catchment area for an excellent school, but then finding that their children have to be bussed out to neighbouring towns with less good schools, and long-term residents are finding that despite generations of their families going to the town schools there is no room for them either. The estates are on the outskirts of town so everyone has to drive into the town centre, increasing pollution and causing constant moaning about the lack of parking, the solution to which being concreting over even more greenery for their 4x4s.

People have to live somewhere, but we need to deal with the infrastructure before building more and more houses. It's so blindingly obvious that it feels like wilful stupidity not to do so.

The ex-chief economist of BoE on LBC

The economy has been flat lining for the past three years, and no evidence that it will improve in the foreseeable future.

The government needs to spend to grow. So investment in the U.K. by the government in infrastructure projects etc to grow the economy.

Keynes economics.👍👍👍

I would love to see, side by side, maps of the UK, with areas coloured by -

The average income in the family
The average capital in the bank per family
The average annual spend on holidays
The average price of three-bedroom housing in each (one map for renting, one for owner-occupiers)
The average annual cost of private education
What percentage of children in each are at private or state schools
The average annual household spend on necessities
How many NHS doctors, physiotherapists and dentists are in each area, and how many private practitioners
How often the average inhabitant sees a GP

And finally - how the adults in each area plan to cast their votes. Comparisons between the last map and the preceding ones would be interesting.

Not every area is on its knees

That is exactly the point GG! It’s the inequality - all areas should have such services, not just ‘some’. I live in a mid-sized northern town, once thriving, that has been well and truly left behind. High street is full of empty derelict shops; what used to be a ‘youth hub’ near me is closed; a well woman clinic - closed; local bus services cancelled leaving many elderly isolated; library was going to close but the community fought to save it - feels like all we’ve got left. I don’t begrudge you your fantastic local facilities - but every town / village should have them; it shouldn’t be a postcode lottery!

Elegran I'm sure there are some obvious correlations, although it always surprises me that some voters still seem to shoot themselves in the foot.

LizzieDrip

^Not every area is on its knees^

That is exactly the point GG! It’s the inequality - all areas should have such services, not just ‘some’. I live in a mid-sized northern town, once thriving, that has been well and truly left behind. High street is full of empty derelict shops; what used to be a ‘youth hub’ near me is closed; a well woman clinic - closed; local bus services cancelled leaving many elderly isolated; library was going to close but the community fought to save it - feels like all we’ve got left. I don’t begrudge you your fantastic local facilities - but every town / village should have them; it shouldn’t be a postcode lottery!

Ah! But I thought the Conservatives were going to "level up". What happened?