Whoever wins the election, faces managing horrific debt!

What the red wall voters want, in my humble opinion (I’m not a red wall voter) is immigration to be properly controlled and I have little confidence that a Labour government will deliver that to them. Neither did the Conservatives and so I think they’re on to a hiding to nothing. Labour will deliver what middle class Labour voters want, but there’s little hope for red wall voters whichever party they vote for.

During the last 14 years there have been numerous examples of reckless spending with public money which the Tories are still doing now!

I am half inclined to agree with this, but, with public services falling apart for deliberate lack of government spending on them I'm more inclined to say that government spending has been woefully misdirected in the interest of government 'small state' ideology, 'austerity', and, as made clear by the pandemic spending, blatant cronyism and corruption.

Rather than focussing on the 'debt' itself I think we should be asking why government has increased the debt with little tangible benefit to the UK. and judging it accordingly.

The country is more than broke

As usual, I would point out that aa government which has the power to issue its own sovereign currency cannot become 'broke' because it is highly unlikely to renege on its 'debt'.

Common sense' prompts me to ask why people and institutions are keen to hold 'government debt', in the form of bonds and government savings vehicles?

The answer being that they know it is the safest form of saving for a guaranteed return in the form of interest payments and with the knowledge that their principle will be repaid to them any time they ask for it back. The holders of government 'debt' don't aren't very kindly lending their money to the government, they view it as a very safe way of saving. Some even see it as a good opportunity to speculate through the secondary bond market...

Do people not understand economics?

Well, if they see a national economy as being the same as a household or company economy they clearly don't understand economics...

paddyann54 exactly the point of the post! During the last 14 years there have been numerous examples of reckless spending with public money which the Tories are still doing now! It is fascinating how people will justify this claiming that despite the facts, highlighting this huge overspend is merely election attack!! Do people not understand economics? The country is more than broke thanks to horrifically careless/naive/stupid policies and granting government contracts to Tory donors for 14 years. Sadly headlines win over common sense - as Murdoch knows to his advantage.

maybe you should remember the debt the labour party left was around 800 million ...now its over 3 TRILLION .sure theres been a pandemic but how many BILLIONS were handed over to people recklessly...Michelle Mone ,Dido Harding etc.
I wouldn't trust a tory with my kids pocket money never mind the countries finances .Anyone who does ...need s to give their head a wobble!!

It was introduced for Thatcher but not by her I think. The Tory party were grateful for what she did for them. Having introduced it, the allowance had to continue.

Given that her dementia started towards the end of the 90's and she declined quickly after Dennis' death in 2002. She did not die until 2013 so it would be interesting to know whether she continued to receive expenses. I would assume not, but who knows?

Dinahmo

Another thing - stopping the large lifetime payments to former PMs would be good - or possibly reduced to a specific number of years. I think that Truss is claiming the expense allowance for public duties for former PMs

Wasn’t it Margaret Thatcher that introduced all of those things?

LizzieDrip

I agree with the comments above but, of course, KS and the Labour Party will, no doubt, be vilified when they don’t make everything better overnight. I’m sure there are many in the country, including here on GN, who can’t wait to stick the knife in.

Tbf posters have stuck the knife into the present government for ages.
I think it’s a mistake for Labour to have the mantra Change! As for one thing change is only good if it’s better, and change will be hard to put into action.
Therefore people will expect change from the outset.

DiamondLily

Smileless2012

Also help with energy bills.

Yep, because of the Ukraine/Russian conflict, fuel bills were propped up, and then there was the cost of living handouts.

There’s not a money tree - all this increased the debt.

I’m not saying any of it was wrong, but it hasn’t helped.

You wouldn’t think people would need reminding about what’s happened to affect the economy and debt here, but apparently they do.

Another thing - stopping the large lifetime payments to former PMs would be good - or possibly reduced to a specific number of years. I think that Truss is claiming the expense allowance for public duties for former PMs

Exactly Dinahmo. Ending sleaze and corruption ought to be avoidable. Recouping some of the money wasted on the contracts ought to be possible. Better workforce policies ought to be affordable.

Appointing Secretaries of State and principal ministers for a term of two years and ensuring that they see policies through ought to improve delivery.

Announcing things like these would be start and cost little.

And alongside the insatiable gaping maw of the NHS, investing in education and rebooting the failing apprenticeship scheme will help rebuild a workforc for the future.

I’m quite happy to tighten my belt and live even more frugally to help a government get this country back on its feet. I haven’t been happy doing it for a party that just seems to exist to make its rich mates richer. Even more so when many of it’s MP’s are leaving the party because they can’t be bothered to sit on the back benches to fight for their ‘ beliefs’. I really hope that Stockton on Tees remember Cleverleys remarks

One of the top issues for me is the environment, if we don’t have clean water then we really are wallowing in the sh1t. That will cost. No tories admit to Brexit being the cause of a 4% decline in GDP and costing a fortune plus contributing to the huge food inflation up to 50%.

We've had more than 10 years of austerity. We need more investment in the infrastructure - rail, water, green energy. If this creates new jobs with decent pay - more taxes will flow into the coffers and people will spend. Most of us like to enrich our lives - whether holidays, entertainment, re-decorating our homes - and this would bring more employment.

The other thing that needs to change is the speed with which miscarriages of justice are dealt with. Infected blood (a friend who had kidney transplant got Hep C) Hillsborough, the Post Office and so. All have taken far too long to deal with because of the delays caused by vested interests in each each case.

And lastly - climate change.

The above is quite a long list but if it is not tackled things will never get better.

I have had to rely on benefits when my kids were young but now I'm better off I will vote Labour so other people can have the same hand up when needed

Well said spabbygirl👏👏👏

Wyllow3

I hope people accept that what Starmer can do will be limited and slow.

One reason he comes across to some - not me - as uninspiring - is that he doesn't make grandiose "oven ready" promises. That just makes me trust him more, not less.

I like Starmer's approach saying they will have to be cautious, but they are going to have a value for money office for new spends on gov't contracts so I hope we will see the end of huge payouts to shareholders whilst the job hasn't been done, such as in water. I'm sure there are many similar contracts yet to be discovered. I heard one lifelong Tory voter on Radio 4 just now saying he's voting Labour next time as he wants public services back as they were (or better) plus another lady saying she's well off now but will vote for those less well off so they can feed their kids before school etc. I'm much the same, I have had to rely on benefits when my kids were young but now I'm better off I will vote Labour so other people can have the same hand up when needed

40 years of consecutive Neoliberalist governments, starting with Thatcher and including Blair’s New Labour, have resulted in the UK we have today. It has infected every sector of society. A complete ‘reset’ will be needed to even scratch the surface.

Even then, I wonder if the UK has gone too far down the road of ‘individual over society’. I sincerely hope not, as I want my grandchildren to grow up in an altruistic society, led by a government that values public service over private, individual ambition.

To all those who don’t believe that each party in government vilifies the previous one before and after an election, sorry, but that’s what happens.
Quote rights and wrongs, figures and reasons as much as you like, vilifying the other party has always been an election strategy.

In answer to all those who say this happens whenever the government change, please note in 2010/11 when the Tories took power, the Public Sector Debt ratio to GDP was 60% - it is now 98%! That is an enormous increase - and decline in GDP has, in part, to be attributed to Brexit, that great Tory disaster.
People are also quoting COVID and the Ukraine war impact on energy prices as ‘unavoidable’. Other G7 countries were affected by same world economic measures and are not suffering anything like as badly, largely as they have better GDP, considerably less PPE fraud and no daft overspend on futile Rwanda policy.
Tories have to own this appalling increase in debt v GDP. Their great economic plan - I wish!

I don't think much will change for the better whoever gets in. The decline in the country cannot be blamed on one party. It has been going on for years and neither one seems to be able to address anything properly.
For instance we watched two separate tv programmes this morning - Dispatches (The War on Britains Motorists) and Panorama (Can Probation keep us safe).
The Dispatches programme talked about councils having no money to repair potholes and the damage to cars increasing as a result. Also the cost of charging electric cars a lot greater than normal petrol. The infrastructure is by no means in place nationwide to cope.
The Panorama programme was about the Probation Service. Staff shortages leading to prisoners being released too early and reoffending. Convicted criminals going on the run and drugs and drink testing not being carried out because of shortage of equipment.
These just touch the tip of the iceberg so I think things have gone too far now for any party to be able to sort anything out.

LizzieDrip

I agree with the comments above but, of course, KS and the Labour Party will, no doubt, be vilified when they don’t make everything better overnight. I’m sure there are many in the country, including here on GN, who can’t wait to stick the knife in.

It happens every time a new party takes over. Whichever party was in power before is vilified by one set and the next party is vilified by the other set.
It just wasn’t so easy to publish the vilifications, before we all had the power of the internet.

winterwhite

All this may be true but every incoming government says the same, every time, and if Labour don’t deliver some of what its voters want/need it may not win a second term.
Labour will be winning the red wall seats back because voters fell for the claim that Brexit would solve the immigration problem and are disillusioned. Now they want better public services and Labour will need to start delivering.
KS needs to offer as many carrots and sticks and IMO should stop harping on about what he won’t be doing.

The problem is there’s so few carrots.

All this may be true but every incoming government says the same, every time, and if Labour don’t deliver some of what its voters want/need it may not win a second term.
Labour will be winning the red wall seats back because voters fell for the claim that Brexit would solve the immigration problem and are disillusioned. Now they want better public services and Labour will need to start delivering.
KS needs to offer as many carrots and sticks and IMO should stop harping on about what he won’t be doing.

IMO, some of this horrific debt was totally unavoidable and whoever was in power would have been in the same boat!

Having said that money across the last 14 years has undoubtedly been thoroughly wasted and like it or not, whether Rwanda works or doesn’t, it’s in no way cost effective! Add that to PPE, “eat out (to help spread the virus), to help out”, Truss and her disastrous chancellor and May and DUPs wasted millions, plus the rest of the cash Johnson spent.

No govt can put this right and keep us on track economically in one term.

Wyllow3

I hope people accept that what Starmer can do will be limited and slow.

One reason he comes across to some - not me - as uninspiring - is that he doesn't make grandiose "oven ready" promises. That just makes me trust him more, not less.

I feel exactly the same.
Facts are often less interesting than sheer fiction.

Agreed Cossy and Wyllow 👏👏👏