Question time Topic tonight - the NHS

growstuff

dragonfly46

Farage said we have to look to what the countries around us do to fund their health service as our NHS is clearly in trouble.
We lived in the Netherlands for many years and there is it is the same as in France. If you can afford it you pay into an insurance company (half our contribution was paid by our employer). If you earn less than the threshold it is all free but you see the same doctors and go to the same hospitals.

In other words, those who can afford it pay more into the system. Isn't that what taxes in the UK should do?

Yes maybe our taxes should cover it but the Dutch system ensures the money goes into the health system.

Thank you Dinahmo. If I lived in France, I’d probably have had my surgery months ago.

This government seem to think that GPs can be replaced by paramedics, nurse practitioners, and Physician Associates (the PAs aren’t even allowed to prescribe!) Just why?

It's simple isn't it? The French have far more doctors per 1000 people than we do, and far more diagnostic equipment too.

Dinahmo

Thanks Maddyone I'm sorry to hear about your delays.

Although my business is UK based (no French clients, only UK residents) I declare my fees here each quarter and have to pay cotisations ( a bit like NIC) at 27% even though I'm well over retirement age but I don't mind because I am aware that the two of us cost the French a lot of money. (the UK does contribute, as it should, because we have an S1)

And there you have it! You pay more for a better service. All the stats show that more is spent per head in France on healthcare - it's no wonder it's better.

The French government allocates more public money per head to the French Health service than does the UK government. That is a significant contribution to its current effectiveness.

So, before we go down the 'insurance' byway (and isn't that what NI was supposed to be?) let's consider what better state funding could do? Perhaps look at the NHS at the close of a period of Labour government and increased funding?

And consider the multiplier effect of funding the NHS, which is considered to be 3. Which means that every £1 of state funding generates £3s of economic activity...

I was very impressed by the French health care system. Immediate GP appointments and very attentive home care for disabled people. Essentially the system is free but patients have to pay a fee at the GP surgery and for medicines but can reclaim it all. Hospital treatment requires a top up payment unless the patient is poor. Many French people pay a small insurance in order to reclaim the top up fee. It's certainly more efficient than the present UK NHS. Despite the high levels of UK funding not enough goes into the GP service to fund more GPs. The Tories seem to think you can replace qualified GPs by paramedics. In my experience that can lead to mis-diagnosis.

Thanks Maddyone I'm sorry to hear about your delays.

Although my business is UK based (no French clients, only UK residents) I declare my fees here each quarter and have to pay cotisations ( a bit like NIC) at 27% even though I'm well over retirement age but I don't mind because I am aware that the two of us cost the French a lot of money. (the UK does contribute, as it should, because we have an S1)

I’m sorry to hear that you’ve had so many health issues lately Dinahmo.

I’ve been living with permanent pain now for nearly four years. It wasn’t bad pain at first, but gradually became worse over time and has been very bad now for about twenty months. I sought medical help and it took a year before I had a diagnosis: narrowing of the cervical spine causing pressure on my nerve. I’ve had to wait for for various appointments, no one has ever seen a need to hurry things along, because it’s not threatening my life, just the quality of my life. If I had lived in France, it sounds as though I could have had a diagnosis within a three or four weeks, from what Dinahmo says, whereas here, because for every test you’re put on a waiting list, it took a year. An entire year just to get a diagnosis!!
Then more waiting to see the correct consultant and the more waiting to try a steroid spinal injection which gave very little relief, then nearly four more months waiting for a follow up appointment with the consultant. I most likely need the spinal surgery that the consultant spoke of, and so I’ll be on to yet another waiting list for that. To be honest I’m sick of it and thoroughly disillusioned with our health service, despite the fact that it’s saved my life on more than one occasion. It leaves me in pain because I’m not dying. If I had a life threatening condition, I’d get treatment more quickly I guess. I’m not even optimistic that the Labour government will be able to change things. My situation will just drag on and on, until one day, in the dim and distant future, I’ll arrive at the top of the list, and get my surgery. If I’m still alive by then.

dragonfly46

Farage said we have to look to what the countries around us do to fund their health service as our NHS is clearly in trouble.
We lived in the Netherlands for many years and there is it is the same as in France. If you can afford it you pay into an insurance company (half our contribution was paid by our employer). If you earn less than the threshold it is all free but you see the same doctors and go to the same hospitals.

In other words, those who can afford it pay more into the system. Isn't that what taxes in the UK should do?

The American system would be disastrous. When we stayed in New York a few years ago, in Harlem, we saw far more elderly people with handicaps that we ever saw in London. The reason of course,was that they couldn't afford to pay.

Joseann

Yes true, and I know in France they don't skimp on geriatric care either. Though I think that has a lot to do with how they value their elderly generation and recognise what they have handed down, if you get what I mean.

You are right. An elderly aquaintance is now in an old people's home. She has one daughter who also lives in France but is very busy. The mum was adamant that she didn't want to go into a home but she loves it - food, treatment etc. She is English and does have some French.

There is another system here which I don't know if it operates in the UK. People register as home carers - ie they take people into their own homes. Their homes are checked to ensure that their facilities are up to standard. These people take one or more patients who are in recovery but need home care. We had a French friend, sadly now dead from cancer, who lived in one such home. We visited occasionally and she was well looked after and the carer was very welcoming. The carer had 3 bedrooms in a separate wing from her family but they all congregated in the living room if they wanted to do so.

Dinahmo

MaizieD

What did Farage say about NHS funding, Dinahmo?

He said that the UK should look at other methods of funding, such as in France.

I expect he's after an insurance model like the USA. Which we know is sparklingly successful not.

I'm sure he's ignoring the fact that even with the French system of insurance the French government funds your health service with much more per head than does the NHS.

My husband was taken ill two weeks ago. I rang for and ambulance and, after assessing the situation, they said they would send one but if we could get him to A&E quicker ourselves that would be preferable. A relative took us (I don't drive).
The care at the hospital and the after care was second to none. Yes 8 hours waiting in A&E was horrible but they saw and treated him as soon as they could. They were wonderful. All of them. The same goes for when he was treated for cancer some years ago.

Thank you for the sympathetic thoughts.

Us baby boomers have grown up with a good health service - all that free orange juice and malt extract etc. My own family, parents and siblings, have all benefited from the NHS. Life expectancy when it was set up was much shorter than it is now which means that there as to be a rethink of how it is funded.

Dinahmo

MaizieD

What did Farage say about NHS funding, Dinahmo?

He said that the UK should look at other methods of funding, such as in France.

👍

Yes true, and I know in France they don't skimp on geriatric care either. Though I think that has a lot to do with how they value their elderly generation and recognise what they have handed down, if you get what I mean.

Joseann The difference is that we are now 77 years old. I would have probably thought the same as you when I was in my 40s but now I am very grateful for the tests that I've had.

I wrote elsewhere of a friend who very sadly died earlier this year. She fell, breaking her hip and shoulder last December. She was sent home before Christmas and her DH had to rush about buying a special bed and a commode etc. The nurse came in 4 times to administer the anti clotting drug. (Her DH found the 5th injection when clearing away her meds) She was in a convalescent home and should never have been sent home. She should have been taken back after Christmas, if they really wanted to clear the wards for the Christmas period.

One morning she slipped off the chair on which she was sitting. Her DH didn't want to move her and called an ambulance. Sadly, whilst he was getting ready and the paramedics were taking her to the ambulance, she had an heart attack. She was revived (twice I think) but died.

The treatment that she had from the hospital and the paramedics was excellent but had the after care been better she may still have been with us. Who knows?

I can think of many examples where things have gone badly wrong and there have been long delays but won't bore you with them.

MaizieD

What did Farage say about NHS funding, Dinahmo?

He said that the UK should look at other methods of funding, such as in France.

Farage said we have to look to what the countries around us do to fund their health service as our NHS is clearly in trouble.
We lived in the Netherlands for many years and there is it is the same as in France. If you can afford it you pay into an insurance company (half our contribution was paid by our employer). If you earn less than the threshold it is all free but you see the same doctors and go to the same hospitals.

Probably preferable. 🐲 🐲

I always record question time
I was very disappointed yesterday to find out I had an edition of Dragons’ Den instead 🙄

What was the question from the audience member? Each one of the panelists has their own agenda, and usually twists everything to suit themselves. Fiona Bruce isn't very good at getting them to stick to the point raised!

I have very good service for many years from both my GP and local hospital for the various health issues I suffer from. I wont list them all. No complaints. All paid for by the NHS. I haven't needed hip or knee replacements so can't comment on that.

petra

MaizieD

What did Farage say about NHS funding, Dinahmo?

I kept thinking ^Nigel Farage is going to make an entrance in a minute^

I just want to know what he said.

He's a very important person, apparently. Regular spot on QT, MD of a company that pretends to be a political party with 2 local councillors and, until yesterday, an MP. who had defected from the tories. Mate of convicted felon, Trump...