Starmer's stubbornness

Very true.

The ‘politics of envy’ is such a lazy trope.

Believe me (or not - it’s up to you) I’m not in the least bit envious!

No one will be able to wave a magic wand to produce properly qualified maths teachers either. Many people with a maths degree choose to work in other areas than teaching because a maths degree is a valuable asset in the jobs market, and maths graduates can earn far more outside teaching.

Smileless2012

^It's a spiteful move designed to appease the envious^ spot on Sparklefizz.

👏👏👏

I still don’t understand WHY private schools appear to be passing all the VAT cost directly on to their paying customers! And WHY their paying customers (the parents) aren’t challenging them on this?

If I had a child at a private school, my first port of call would be to question the Headteacher as to WHY they apparently can’t manage their finances in a such a way that, at least, some of this cost can be absorbed by the school🤷‍♀️

I don’t get it. Maybe I’m missing something - please can someone enlighten me!

I have some sympathy with Keir Starmer over all this in that there is an awful lot of unpicking which needs to be done before he can give a definitive answer. It won't happen for another two years in my opinion, and I would hope he will apply some sensitivity. He would be better concentrating on far weightier issues in his campaign because the 20% increase on school fees, which wont be 20% anyway, will not wave a magic wand.

Wwm2future engineers, architects, creatives and doctors, politicians also, can be from a private educational system too. The 93 and 7 percent is a bit confusing as they all feed into the United Kingdom?

It's a spiteful move designed to appease the envious spot on Sparklefizz.

Sarnia, any increase in numbers processed by EHCP by any government would cost more in terms of what's slowing it down - shortage of staff to assess.

My DiL is involved with that as part of her work as a speech therapist as part of the team.

The Labour Party hasn't promised immediate teachers July 5th as everyone well knows would not be possible! Any change after 14 years of austerity will take time.

Conscription, July 5th, anyone?

Rosie51

Whitewavemark2

I understood the exact opposite.

That an exemption is in place for children with these plans.

I’ll get back on this

I thought Sarnia was saying pupils without an EHCP wouldn't be exempt from VAT, she says children with a plan will be exempt. The problem is getting an ECHP is not easy, nor speedy. My own grandson, who is completely state taught at a special school for children with complex special needs, took ages to get one. It took a lot of persistence by his mother to speed things up to even a snail's pace.

My granddaughter mentioned in the OP is at a specialist private school for dyslexic children. Through no fault of the primary school they didn't have the money to deliver her EHCP. 2 years of battles, despair and knockbacks and £20,000 gathered together from all the family and stringent economies for her parents until Surrey County Council conceded and named her present school on the EHCP. 2 years where she fell behind even more. Year 5 and struggling with Year 1 spellings. The whole SEND system is failing from top to bottom and as you say, it is constant fighting. Starmer's refusal to exempt those without an EHCP will likely result in a stampede to local authorities for an EHCP, mostly resulting in the taxpayer footing the bill.

Sarnia

Whitewavemark2

I understood the exact opposite.

That an exemption is in place for children with these plans.

I’ll get back on this

The children on the EHCP plans will be exempt. It is the 103.000 SEND children in private education without an EHCP who will be affected.

I am confident that this will not be brought in immediately as I have said, and I suspect that VAT law will be tweaked to accommodate these children.

Posted without seeing your last post Sarnia. I hope Labour will enable a much quicker easier route to EHCPs being put in place so that no special needs children suffer, whether in the private or public sector.

Befor

I don't have a problem with private schools losing their charitable status, I do have a problem that children currently without an EHCP in the private sector who need one may have to leave their school to be put into a school unable to meet their needs.

Whitewavemark2

I understood the exact opposite.

That an exemption is in place for children with these plans.

I’ll get back on this

The children on the EHCP plans will be exempt. It is the 103.000 SEND children in private education without an EHCP who will be affected.

Whitewavemark2

I understood the exact opposite.

That an exemption is in place for children with these plans.

I’ll get back on this

I thought Sarnia was saying pupils without an EHCP wouldn't be exempt from VAT, she says children with a plan will be exempt. The problem is getting an ECHP is not easy, nor speedy. My own grandson, who is completely state taught at a special school for children with complex special needs, took ages to get one. It took a lot of persistence by his mother to speed things up to even a snail's pace.

Hear hear WW 👏👏👏

This will pass. The VAT will be absorbed, and in a years time it will be business as usual for the private sector.

I am not remotely worried about the 7% they will continue to thrive in their privileged existence and I have no issue with that.

I am however concerned for the 93% because these are the ones that will be our future. These are the future engineers, architects, teachers, artists, creatives, doctors, nurses etc. These are the ones that will oil the countries wheels and are precious to us.

They must be given every chance and opportunity. So, if at the moment the country is in such a mess that their schools are literally falling apart then imv every resource must be given to improve the future generations chances. If that means that the most wealthy pay a bit more towards these people who in turn will make their country a better place - then GOOD.

GrannyGravy13

Not only has Labour got a supply of magic money trees it appears to have been growing teachers, nurses and doctors ready to start work on the 5th July, amazing!

Oven ready, GG!

Well now, here's a thing:

*Number of private school pupils rises despite claims families priced out by Labour’s VAT plan

Independent schools in England had warned plan to charge VAT on fees was putting parents off and had shut schools*

However,

"The Independent Schools Council (ISC) said last month that pupil numbers had fallen – a sign, they said, that schools were already starting to see “the impact of VAT looming on the horizon”.

But official Department for Education (DfE) data published last week shows that as of this January, the number of pupils in independent schools in England was 593,486, up from 591,954 the year before and an increase of 24,150 on 2020-21

The ISC has also partly blamed two recent private school closures on Labour’s policy. However, the official school census data shows that 12 new independent schools opened in the last year, with the total rising from 2,409 to 2,421."

www.theguardian.com/education/article/2024/jun/15/number-of-private-school-pupils-rises-despite-claims-families-priced-out-by-labours-vat-plan

Not only has Labour got a supply of magic money trees it appears to have been growing teachers, nurses and doctors ready to start work on the 5th July, amazing!

maddyone

The money is unlikely to be used to improve state schools.

I’ll be watching with interest. The sudden appearance of e.g. more maths teachers, together with more doctors and more dentists will be amazing.
Has improvement of school premises and the funding for that been mentioned yet?
My DD who left KS3 teaching because of pupil/parent behaviour says that’s one thing that needs improving in state schools.

OP, I would be asking the headteacher of your granddaughter’s school why it is necessary to pass on the VAT cost to parents. Why can’t the school manage their finances so that the cost can be absorbed for those children without an EHCP?

State school budgets have been consistently cut year on year for 14 years. Headteachers in these schools have had to manage those cuts … which they have done. Why can’t the head of a private school take a leaf of their books?

Too right. And they will need more than just extra maths teachers in state schools.