Starmer's stubbornness

I despair at some of the feelings about state education on here! Having taught ages 8-18 over 36 wonderful years of being at the chalk face so to speak, all I can say is that staff in the state sector work so hard to give children a solid foundation in life! Under the last Labour Gov new schools were built, resources were great and improvements were evident! So much of this has gone in the past 14 years! Not one new school has been built here where I live but many concrete building issues !!
I have no idealistic thoughts for the next Gov as all of this supposition will take time to filter down into the existing systems .
Give state schools your support not your sniding on-going criticisms some of you!
In fact this will be my last written post on GN as I get so fed up with the lack of understanding by some of you about the real issues people of our country are facing and DON’T say it is all to do with immigration !!!!
I shall continue to read and smile at comments but will not contribute, not that many of you will be bothered sitting in your ivory towers!

Chartered accountant here.

Of the total amount that the school bills, 1/6 will be payable to HMRC as VAT.

So a school might have billed £10,000 per annum pre VAT imposition. It could bill £12,000 after the new budget, keep £10,000 and pass £2,000 to HMRC. Or, it could bill £10,800, keep £9,000, and pass £1,800 on to HMRC. Some schools have effectively planned for this by charging above inflation rises over the past few years, so that they can absorb part or all of the VAT in due course.

VAT is charged to schools on some of there costs (not salaries which are by far the biggest). But certainly things like maintenance will carry a VAT cost which the school will be able to reclaim against the VAT it has charged on its bills. It won't be massive, but will reduce overall costs by something in the order of 1-5%-ish.

I think it's probable that the increase in the proportion of pupils that the state educates will cost more than the amount of revenue raised by the VAT. Hopefully, the attendant influx of sharp-elbowed parents into the state sector will help to improve standards there.

If Starmer is trying to make this token gesture to make a more equal society he’s wasting his time.
The class structure in the UK is deeply embedded.
A friend had to get her child into a private school because the state school told her quite honestly that they could not provide the maths tuition that her bright child needed.
People paying for private education are taking some burden off the state. And most of them are hard working people not all from entitled backgrounds

Whitewavemark2

This will pass. The VAT will be absorbed, and in a years time it will be business as usual for the private sector.

I am not remotely worried about the 7% they will continue to thrive in their privileged existence and I have no issue with that.

I am however concerned for the 93% because these are the ones that will be our future. These are the future engineers, architects, teachers, artists, creatives, doctors, nurses etc. These are the ones that will oil the countries wheels and are precious to us.

They must be given every chance and opportunity. So, if at the moment the country is in such a mess that their schools are literally falling apart then imv every resource must be given to improve the future generations chances. If that means that the most wealthy pay a bit more towards these people who in turn will make their country a better place - then GOOD.

Absolutely agree. We need improved educational standards for all, not just a few. If private school pupils with an EHCP are exempt from VAT then that is fair. Many pupils in state schools who need EHCPs don’t have them. Since I retired from teaching, funding and assessments for SEN have dramatically decreased. We were just starting to make progress under Blair’s government. The charity status for private schools is an anomaly.

I disagree with this policy . Madness in my view

It’s the way it is in some law firms , which so many aspire to work in without knowing what it’s like on the inside. I was always acutely aware that I went to a state school and didn’t go to university, but I built myself a very valuable client base which I was free to take to another firm and that was where I had the edge over the hooray Henries. More than one way to skin a cat. Hitting your managing partner in the wallet is extremely satisfying.

Bluddy Hell GSM that’s awful isn’t it! What a country we live in

I have seen it happen in the law. I even saw a cv dumped in the bin because the applicant’s name was Tracy.

Scrutinising cvs to see which school candidates attended is part of the interview process.
If it’s used to exclude candidates, you’re right, that’s unacceptable, but I haven’t seen that in all the interviews I’ve taken part in.

believe me a lot of ex-public school men scrutinise cvs to see which school an applicant attended

And that is something that’s unacceptable and should be challenged!

TBH even the very words make me nauseous…”ex-public school men”. Vile!

I'm not against choice, but numbers at private schools and numbers of private schools are going up.

Yes MayBee, some will. The old boys’ network is still alive and well.

That isn’t what I said Wyllow. But consider the first point I made about the needs of some children. And I am pro-choice.

Didn't that used to be called 'The Old Boys Network' and condemned as unfair and elitist?

We should support private schools so that the elitist ideas of some employers are perpetuated?

Germanshepherdsmum

It can make a difference if a child needs more one to one attention, and believe me a lot of ex-public school men scrutinise cvs to see which school an applicant attended.

So will they give preference to someone from a private school over an other candidate who is more suited to the job?

It can make a difference if a child needs more one to one attention, and believe me a lot of ex-public school men scrutinise cvs to see which school an applicant attended.

And … don’t always assume that a private education is always a better education.

Germanshepherdsmum

True though Casdon, is it not?

Is anybody supposed to have any sympathy? Even poor people have votes.

If it raises extra cash to feed back into state schools then great.

But applications and numbers of private schools has gone up.
Figures in this Guardian article which deal with he debate head on using official Department of Education figures.

www.theguardian.com/education/article/2024/jun/15/number-of-private-school-pupils-rises-despite-claims-families-priced-out-by-labours-vat-plan

"An Institute for Fiscal Studies report published last year suggested that the number of pupils leaving the private sector to attend state schools in response to VAT on fees would be “small”. Michael Pyke, from the Campaign for State Education, said: “According to the IFS, since 2010, private school fees have increased by 50% in real terms but this has not led to any reduction in pupil numbers. And since 2010, the gap in funding between private and state schools has increased to more than 90%.

“What I find incredible is that this enormous fuss is being made on behalf of fewer than 7% of our school children at the same time as the school system that 93% of our school children have to attend is falling to pieces.”

I've read several threads wholly pre-occupied by this issue repeating the same arguments however number are rising in private education.

Germanshepherdsmum

Easy to say if you don’t have anything to be robbed of growstuff.

Miaow!

ronib

*Glorianny*I have a lifetime’s experience. I do understand special needs and fortunately these days, phonics are back in favour. I am able to help in some ways.
General taxation should fund essential services.

Education is an essential service and a "lifetime's experience" is not sufficient to work with special needs children.
Would you be happy if a nurse treating you said "It's OK I've no training but I have a lifetime's experience"?
And dealing with special needs children requires a great deal more than a knowledge of phonics. You may think you understand but I bet you don't.

GloriannyI have a lifetime’s experience. I do understand special needs and fortunately these days, phonics are back in favour. I am able to help in some ways.
General taxation should fund essential services.

ronib I'm pleased you enjoyed a fundraising event for your GC's school. There is always room for financial support to supply extras in schools. And volunteers are always welcome.
However neither is likely to supply the professional expertise which is needed. You won't raise enough money to fund a teacher. You may hear readers but you will not have the relevant training to work with children with special needs.
The very basic needs of schools are not being met. And only taxation can do that.

A Spurs label would have been preferable! ⚽️