Is this country morally bankrupt?

Very emotive blanket accusation *We see these children as some sort of threat*

I don’t see them as some sort of threat.
I do want to have children defined.
I do want to know what you propose should happen to those children who have no families claiming them. They would feel it a double disaster to have lost their parents and see others being claimed and them being abandoned.
What shall we do about those we see on the news who are being looked after by friends or relatives who are not in much better state to care for them and who would like to come with them? Shall we turn away the remaining familiar links of these children?
It just isn’t that easy and making a quick response which would inevitably be twisted would not help.
I don’t have the answers, but reading the accusations I have seen makes me wonder exactly who is morally bankrupt.

Callistemon213

Oh fgs.

Compared to Hamas very few of our politicians could be called morally bankrupt.

There are plenty on the right of the Tory party who privately are racist and homophobic, in the wider population it’s common too.

Callistemon213

Oh fgs.

Compared to Hamas very few of our politicians could be called morally bankrupt.

Why choose Hamas? Is that the only thing you think we should examine our actions against? That is in itself rather morally questionable.
Why not choose Italy? Italy is treating over 100 Gazan children in its hospitals.
Or France
They've treated over 1000 casualties in a hospital ship moored off the Gaza coast.
How's our standard of moral bankrupcy doing against them?

Orphaned children from Gaza are no more than a threat than orphaned children from Syria, Sudan, Ukraine or any other orphans.

I do question why there is not an outcry to bring them to the U.K. if they have relatives or not?

Oh fgs.

Compared to Hamas very few of our politicians could be called morally bankrupt.

I think the real problem with Gaza and why it shows our country is morally bankrupt is that we see these children as some sort of threat. Basically people believe they will be radicalised and will cause some sort of terrorism in the UK. But what that proves is that our belief in our system is so frail, even orphaned children can threaten it. With no belief system, with no morality, with nothing strong enough to show the world what our values are, what else are we but morally bankrupt?

And I agree with David49 Starmer will not move to welcome children from Gaza should he form the next government.

Luckygirl3

Sadly I think our government is; and the media.

But at a local and individual level people are mostly decent and have integrity and kindness. But they are too nice to want to be in government or the media.

The next government will be no different, I dont see Starmer inviting orphans from Gaza or any other war zone to come to the UK.
I’m sure every individual will go through the normal
immigration process, Gaza is emotive but just one of the many conflicts where children suffer.

Luckygirl3

Sadly I think our government is; and the media.

But at a local and individual level people are mostly decent and have integrity and kindness. But they are too nice to want to be in government or the media.

Yes.

I have to say that over the past couple of weeks I have been quite upset at some of the things I've read on here (and I'm not usually a delicate flower), but I remind myself that this is not typical. Most people I know, whatever their political persuasion and voting intention, are, as you say, decent people with integrity and kindness.

Sadly I think our government is; and the media.

But at a local and individual level people are mostly decent and have integrity and kindness. But they are too nice to want to be in government or the media.

No I do not believe our country is morally bankrupt. I don’t see gg13’ s apples and pears comment as racist.

I agree with both statements.

No, of course "this country" is not morally bankrupt. That suggestion is an insult to the many good people in this country who are generous with time, money and in spirit.

A Government Minister cannot give an answer at the moment as Parliament is dissolved.

No I do not believe our country is morally bankrupt. I don’t see gg13’ s apples and pears comment as racist.

This election is contributing to attempts to simplify complex problems by demanding one word answers “yes or no” the interviewer demands as some politician attempts to explain it really isn’t that straightforward.

Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon and swathes of Africa are full of children orphaned in wars.

I think part of the problem with the central question of this thread is that 'morally bankrupt' is one of those 'on its knees' or 'off a cliff' phrases that means different things to different people and therefore obstructs rather than facilitates debate.

That is particularly true at a time like this, when people are trying hard to find ways to discredit politicians with whose party they disagree. So much of the election campaign has encouraged nit-picking over what 'working people' means and similar. It's a convenient way to distract people from the actual issues, as it results in people squabbling amongst themselves - often in an unedifying manner. Resorting to name-calling and sniping is not debating.

FWIW I think that of course orphaned children should be able to come here to join relatives, and I don't think that a policy that disallows that is defensible. I'd have to have a tighter definition of 'morally bankrupt' to comment on that though, and even with one I don't think abroad judgement like that can be applied to the UK as a whole.

Havig read some responses on here then yes, we are morally bankrupt.

Freya5

Delila

Children should not be left orphaned in the crumbling ruins of a war-torn country. The world, this country, can do better.

Which country would you take them from, Yemen, Sudan, or is it just Gaza.

In answer to your question Freya, I repeat the comment you’ve quoted above. I think the world has a moral obligation to help orphaned children in such dire circumstances, and I include this country. Yes, there are enormous practical difficulties, but solutions can be found.

Where there’s a will there’s a way.

Glorianny

As regards children leaving Gaza, some have been evacuated for medical treatment. However 11 children who are supported by a charity and need treatment have not been given permission to come to the UK
news.sky.com/story/uk-urged-to-admit-11-gaza-children-hurt-in-the-war-for-urgent-treatment-13147931
The US has taken children, Spain and Italy are treating children. Egyptian health services are over stretched treating casualties. Why aren't we helping?

Is anyone else going to comment?

Their stay in Britain would only be temporary, for the course of their treatment - it just needs the British government to sign it off, but they have not done so.

... and the funding is already in place.

Two of the children horrifically injured, they need the treatment they can't get in Gaza. The major surgery has already been carried out - multiple times for the girl.

They did not vote for Hamas.

Why the hesitation?

As regards children leaving Gaza, some have been evacuated for medical treatment. However 11 children who are supported by a charity and need treatment have not been given permission to come to the UK
news.sky.com/story/uk-urged-to-admit-11-gaza-children-hurt-in-the-war-for-urgent-treatment-13147931
The US has taken children, Spain and Italy are treating children. Egyptian health services are over stretched treating casualties. Why aren't we helping?

GrannyGravy13

valdali

I don't understand Granny Gravy 13' "apples & pears " comment. Ukrainian children v Gazan children, why state they are different? they are - different nationalities - but they AREN'T more or less deserving as small human beings, and in this context about taking orphans, its hard to interpret that comment as anything other than valueing Ukrainian children above those from Gaza.

It is not the children that are different, it’s the situation.

I bloody well give up 🤦‍♀️

I bloody well give up

Don't, GG.

I think most of us understood what you were saying.

I don't think politicians like to answer those kinds of direct questions, so their hesitation or refusal always damns them - as much as a wrong reply will.

Actually, knowing that whatever he said would be twisted to suit the ends of the listeners, he was probably wise not to offer anything. In the same way that our local Labour candidate could not give me a decisive answer about what KS will do with to the asylum seekers housed on the Bibby Stockholm barge if Labour win the election.

James Cleverly could have simply said that as he was no longer a member of government, he is in no position to give a definitive answer, but that he hope there would be some help for the children, and that we, as a country would take some part in helping them. Simple really.

Apart from anything else, these traumatised and terrified children are ripe recruits for the next generation of terrorists, so it is in everyone's interests to help them.

I also think that pressure can be so easily put on by other countries, but in truth it is GOCAT who oversees the movement of Gaza citizens.

But there has already been some children who have left for medical treatment through the Rafah crossing. Israel, Egypt the UN and USA . arranged it. Hamas has no say in the matter.

So this can be done.

"You are giving an emotional response to a very complex situation. It cannot be compared with, for instance, Ukraine. The children are citizens of another nation in whose affairs we interfere at our peril."

Whilst I agree it is a complex situation, I'm curious to know in what context Ukrainian children are not citizens of another nation while the orphans of Gaza are?

valdali

I don't understand Granny Gravy 13' "apples & pears " comment. Ukrainian children v Gazan children, why state they are different? they are - different nationalities - but they AREN'T more or less deserving as small human beings, and in this context about taking orphans, its hard to interpret that comment as anything other than valueing Ukrainian children above those from Gaza.

It is not the children that are different, it’s the situation.

I bloody well give up 🤦‍♀️

Whitewavemark2

They are orphaned children with no family left in Gaza but family in other countries.

That is important to understand

So whichever country the relatives are in might come forward to plead with Hamas for some help to allow charities to bring them out?
There are many rich countries in that area too well able to offer sanctuary.

I'm sure GOSH would be more than willing to take badly injured children if they have the capacity.

He wasn’t in a position to give an answer. That is also important to understand.

They are orphaned children with no family left in Gaza but family in other countries.

That is important to understand