The state of water in the uk

If we want cleaner water we are going to have to pay for it, the regulator is OFWAT, they decide how much is spent on the water industry in the UK.

Successive governments have instructed OFWAT to hold down water bills, that has been the prime cause of poor water quality.
Management of the water companies has been poor, however don’t believe that nationalization will be a quick fix, my guess is if water bills were doubled there would still be a lot of sewage spills. Modern construction separates storm water from sewage, in older areas storm water overloads the treatment works, separating the 2 systems would help a lot.

As for swimming in rivers, the official advice is that inland fresh water is not safe to swim in in the UK, it contains all sorts of bacteria and parasites, that’s not going to change any time soon. By the time the Thames has reached London it’s been flushed 6 times, swim in it if you want I won’t be joining you.

paddyann54

Water is just fine here,the victorian infasructure is gradually being replaced,generally we ,in my area,have no issues with our clean fresh tapwater.That'll be why WM wants to pipe it down south!! Along with our electricity...CLEAN electricity .though they appear to have sights on the oil fields too.
Who knew Scotland was so important in the ENGLISH economy.....lol and thats before the 8 billion + from whisky and food
I guess we've been right about being pillaged.its what WM does best.

well, I can assure you that we don't need anymore water here! I had an aunt who had the same opinions as you, blamed Westminster for everything, and somehow lumped all people living in England as being complicit with everything the government did, despite much evidence to the contrary. she used to refer to it as 'Oor watter'. I am a Scot too by the way.

Dinahmo

M0nica

But the assets can then b sold and you do get these sleight of hand arrangements that result in all the debts disappearing and the assets being sold for £1.

Sir Philip Green was/is veyr good at that kind of leger-de-main

In this case the assets are the water pipes, reservoirs and sewage works. probably rather difficult to strip these assets.

Surely the customers, who have no choice of supplier, are also an asset?

It must be wonderful on the Sunlit Uplands north of the border where all is Utopia.

Apparently Scottish people are being kept in the dark about the pollution of their waters.

www.sas.org.uk/water-quality/water-companies-shocking-stats/scottish-water/

Seven stretches of Scottish rivers totalling more than 45 miles (73km) in length are not expected to fully recover due to pollution from sewage, according to data from the environmental regulator.

Figures from the Scottish Environmental Protection Agency (Sepa) show the process of improving these sections of rivers has been paused until 2028.

Conservationists said it was “shocking” that the regulator was effectively “writing off” whole sections of Scottish rivers affected by sewage pollution.

inews 2023

Pillaging whisky?
I'll get DH on to it

Water is just fine here,the victorian infasructure is gradually being replaced,generally we ,in my area,have no issues with our clean fresh tapwater.That'll be why WM wants to pipe it down south!! Along with our electricity...CLEAN electricity .though they appear to have sights on the oil fields too.
Who knew Scotland was so important in the ENGLISH economy.....lol and thats before the 8 billion + from whisky and food
I guess we've been right about being pillaged.its what WM does best.

Sorry, I was just making a technical point about Cimpanies Linited by Guarantee, Thames Water isn’t one.

I get our bills have to go up to pay for the years of neglect , but I object to bills going up to pay these inflated salaries, bonuses and dividends.

This morning it has been announced that the head of TW has been given a £179,000 bonus, despite wanting to increase charges for customers by 60% and despite sewage discharges into rivers doubling.

£195k - for three months "work" vegansrock!

Alastair Cochran, the company’s chief financial officer, received a bonus of £446,000 as part of a total remuneration of £1.33m

It matters not if they are abject failures at their jobs, it seems that money is free-flowing their way however they perform.

The board are definitely incompetent and negligent - the boss just been given £195k bonus - what on earth for? Money that should be put into the infrastructure going to pay obscene salaries and bonuses, whilst dumping record amounts of sewage - that’s got to be evidence of their failure.

Siope

Shareholders in a company limited by guarantee have ( the clue is in the name) their liability limited to a guaranteed sum - normally £1 - and that includes the board unless it can be proved that they were negligent and fraudulent.

I would have thought that would be easy to prove.

Siope

In England. Water in Scotland and Norrhern Ireland is essentially nationalised, and much Wales is covered by a not for profit company.

But yes, it’s madness to privatise natural monopolies, especially something as essential as water and sewerage.

Not-for-profit Welsh Water is not well run. D
Rivers in Wales ars amongst the most polluted with discharge of sewage. The beautiful Usk and Wye and others ard amongst the most polluted in the UK although Severn Trent Water is also to blame for the disgusting pollution of rivers on the border.

We have all been badly let down by the privatisation of the water companies.

Unlike other providers of essential services such as gas and electricity, there is no choice, no competition.
It is a complete failure

Debts can be written off in bankcrupcies, certainly the creditors can be left out of pocket as many people know who have been creditors of failed companies. The directors can certainly be accused of mismanagement and incompetence. There may be no alternative to nationalisation . We are told our bills will go up over 50% this year, so I’d welcome renationalisation, so even if our bills do go up it won’t be to pay the directors big bonuses which they are still getting.

Siope

In England. Water in Scotland and Norrhern Ireland is essentially nationalised, and much Wales is covered by a not for profit company.

But yes, it’s madness to privatise natural monopolies, especially something as essential as water and sewerage.

Nationalisation is far from fool proof, as Scotland has found out.

inews.co.uk/news/sewage-dumped-scottish-rivers-50-times-day-2975955#:~:text=Scottish%20Water%20released%20sewage%20into,figure%20is%20more%20than%2019%2C000

Most of the shares are held by the main shareholders who provide the directors and governance of the company. One has already valued their shares in TW at £0.

M0nica

But the assets can then b sold and you do get these sleight of hand arrangements that result in all the debts disappearing and the assets being sold for £1.

Sir Philip Green was/is veyr good at that kind of leger-de-main

In this case the assets are the water pipes, reservoirs and sewage works. probably rather difficult to strip these assets.

The apparent ‘sleight of hand’ arrangements which are publicised are not as you suggest MOnica. If there are assets they are applied in a statutory order to satisfy debts. None are sold under the counter, believe me. If the assets have already been stripped that is a different matter entirely.

But the assets can then b sold and you do get these sleight of hand arrangements that result in all the debts disappearing and the assets being sold for £1.

Sir Philip Green was/is veyr good at that kind of leger-de-main

M0nica

Debts can and do disappear when a company goe into liquidation. If there is no money they do not get paid.

Corporate bankruptcy's have brought down many a small successful company when debts have not been paid.

It has just been reported that Thames Water can keep going for another 11 months, unless it can get more financing in that time. they ahve been trying to get new finance for some time. Currently even the entities that own the company are refusing to put more money into it. A sure sign of rats exiting the sinking ship!

If a company is in liquidation it is dissolved, not taken on by someone else.

Limited companies issue shares and share holders liability is limited to the number of shares they own. If the company goes down the shares are worthless. This is what the term 'limited' in the name means. That you can invest money in the company but cannot lose more than you invested

On the otherhand, when a company is successful lots of people compete to buy the shares when a shareholder decides to sell them and that drives the price of the shares up and the shareholder will make a profit.

With Lloyds, groups of people form syndicates. Lloyds rules now lay down that every member (name) of the syndicate must have a minimum net worth of £600-800,K capital. The heads of the syndicates then decide what insurance risks they are prepared to take.

Nowadays, when a big engineering project could be worth billions, lots of groups will take a small share in the risk being insured. The idea is that each syndicate chooses their risks carefully so that they never have to pay out more than the insurance premiums they collect and hopefully make a profit to pay to the names. The names, meanwhile can invest ther capital how they will and get interest on it - plus, all being well get an income from Lloyds (the nsurance market, not the bank)

What happened in the 1980s was that there was a concatination of major disasters, several hurricanes, major disasters,oil platform spillages and the pay outs exceeded income and the names had to cough up the rest of the money - and for many that cleaned them out because their capital included their house.

Tighter rules now mean that not only must names have substantial captial, it cannot include the house. A friend of mine was one of those 'hammered' in the 1980s and couldn't pay up. Lloyds devised a scheme to stop too many personal bankruptcys. My friend has his income and still lives in his (modest) house. But when he dies everything he owns will be sold to pay the amount he still owes Lloyds.

Debts can and do disappear when a company goe into liquidation. If there is no money they do not get paid.

Corporate bankruptcy's have brought down many a small successful company when debts have not been paid.

It has just been reported that Thames Water can keep going for another 11 months, unless it can get more financing in that time. they ahve been trying to get new finance for some time. Currently even the entities that own the company are refusing to put more money into it. A sure sign of rats exiting the sinking ship!

Shareholders in a company limited by guarantee have ( the clue is in the name) their liability limited to a guaranteed sum - normally £1 - and that includes the board unless it can be proved that they were negligent and fraudulent.

Ok GSM, I understand.