Gransnet forums

News & politics

The state of water in the uk

(63 Posts)
Germanshepherdsmum Tue 09-Jul-24 12:59:53

Lloyd Names are a totally different thing. They underwrite insurance. Shareholders in a limited company, public are private, are not liable for the company’s debts unless, as is very rarely the case, the company is limited by guarantee.

Chocolatelovinggran Tue 09-Jul-24 12:56:06

Cat - among - the - pigeon question: are the shareholders not responsible for losses? Lloyd " names" were in the 1990's.
Is this different? If so, how?
I would welcome some explanation of this, as I am mindful of my ignorance of corporate finance.

Siope Tue 09-Jul-24 12:18:15

It would add £15bn to gross national debt, which is a fraction of the current £2,720.8 billion.

For comparison, when student loans were moved from being classified as assets to deficits in 2019, it added £12bn to UK debt, and barely anyone even noticed.

Chocolatelovinggran Tue 09-Jul-24 12:15:40

GSM I understand completely ypur comments about the debt, but I do not see any alternative. The people who live in the Thames Water region cannot be expected to pay down what is owed, surely, so who else can or will?

JaneJudge Tue 09-Jul-24 12:13:06

so if it went bankrupt and the government didn't acquire it, what would happen to the debt? and what would happen to the company/water?

Germanshepherdsmum Tue 09-Jul-24 12:08:12

There is still a huge amount of debt which anyone acquiring the company would have to take on. Shares will need to be acquired. Debts don’t simply disappear if a company goes into administration.

M0nica Tue 09-Jul-24 12:03:50

I am not sure I agree GSM. The company is virtually bankrupt, as I said one owner has already completely written off their investment and many a company days from bankruptcy has had a positive share price, and then been sold for £1.

If TW goes into bankruptcy, and it might choose that as a way out of its problems, it could be taken back into state ownership quite cheaply.

Germanshepherdsmum Tue 09-Jul-24 11:41:38

Nationalising TW would be hugely expensive. The government would have to take on the debt burden, and it’s unarguable that expensive upgrades to facilities are needed. Share price is currently 88p. The shares would have to be acquired, they can’t be confiscated! I know many posters think the company could be acquired for virtually nothing because it carries so much debt, but it doesn’t work like that.

Siope Tue 09-Jul-24 11:09:00

In England. Water in Scotland and Norrhern Ireland is essentially nationalised, and much Wales is covered by a not for profit company.

But yes, it’s madness to privatise natural monopolies, especially something as essential as water and sewerage.

M0nica Tue 09-Jul-24 11:08:29

One of the owners of Thames Water (the teacher's pension fund in Canada, I think) has already written off its investment in Thames Water. I assume it has taken out so much in dividends, writing off the origninal investment in the company is neither here nor there.

Thames Water currently has plans to flood most of our parish under a huge reservoir bigger than Kielder Water. It is on flat ground and will have 85 foot high banks, and its purpose is not to provide water to meet new housing demand. but to store water in the winter, to release into the Thames in Summer when levels are lower to make it easier to take water from the river there.

Apart from anything else, with the promise of future summers being wetter (like this year), I wonder whether it is needed. The reservoir will also occupy most of the flood plain of our village, which has flooded twice this year and will raise the water table by over a metre, which will put all the part of the village not now at risk from flooding in the flood danger zone.

There has already been one major Public Enquiry thaat rejected the plan, our big worry is that with control of the company in government hands they will over ride them and ;et it go ahead.

We are not being nimbys. There are better and cheaper ways of providing the water needed and the Public Enquiry validated these, but, from Thames Water's point of view, a big new reservoir, despite the borrowing needed to build it, added more value to the company than the simpler cheaper alternative. Once again a classic case of them riding over customers and the environement for the gain of the companies foreign owners.

Chocolatelovinggran Tue 09-Jul-24 11:06:11

I can't think of another solution . Can anyone else?

GrannyGravy13 Tue 09-Jul-24 11:03:39

Interesting and informative article in Guardian 17/05/2024

Whitewavemark2 Tue 09-Jul-24 10:44:14

When a Prime Minister enters No 10 for the first time he/she is briefed on any immediate domestic crises.

This time the Prime Minister was told that Thames water is in existential crises, not just because it has milked its customers by billions without investing in the infrastructure, but that the company’s infrastructure is near collapse.

Other company’s are identified as being in a similar condition.

Leaving aside the fact the previous government completely failed to get a grip of the situation, I think that frankly we have little choice but to re-nationalise our water system entirely.

Imo this should cost the U.K. nothing as the shareholders have been more than amply rewarded over the decades by money that should have gone into re-building/repairing the infrastructure.

The Prime Minister has, however spoken of labours reluctance to re-nationalise, but I think pressure to do so will eventually be overwhelming.