Nursing and Midwifery council ( not fit for purpose) my words.

My wife gave up 8 yrs ago, after over 30 yrs, it had become a scripted box ticking exercise, care was secondary, there just was not time to do what was needed

Nurses and midwives are stressed and demoralised as a result of their working conditions, over which the NMC has absolutely no control.

Incidentally, it's not up to the NMC to take action against a nurse in possession of pornographic images. That's up to the police and the employer. The NMC cannot take direct action.

MOnica I know full well that the NMC affects a small minority of nurses and midwifes - those who are are being investigated for malpractice. The effect on staff morale and/or patient experience caused by the NMC is nowhere near the effects from other sources within hospitals and NHS systems themselves.

This is my last contribution to this thread. I read the whole report because I have a small interest. My daughter worked at the NMC about 8 or 9 years ago on a temporary contract. She hated it and still says it's one of the worst jobs she's ever had. She works in HR, so there wasn't even anybody to complain to - she spent her time dealing with complaints from NMC staff themselves. That's what this report is about!

growstuff I never said the NMC was part of the NHS, just that what the NMC does affects the morale and behaviour of nurses and midwives, most of whom work in the NHS and that means it can affect the standard of care given by the NHS, if there are nurses working who are not safe to be around patients, when nurses cannot get redress against racist words and behaviour and when nurses can be driven to suicide because of excessive waits for rulling son complaints.

Welbeck quotes the NMC refuses to take action against a nurse who possessed the worst category of child abuse images, and another accused of rape, on the grounds that these issues related to their personal lives, not their work. How do you think the nurses working with these people felt?

Nurses and midwives demoralised and stressed because of the failures in their regulating body are not going to be capable of doing the best by their patients - and that affects the standard of care offered by the NHS.

sodapop

Louisa & Casdon sorry to have intruded on your thread, I will be more careful in future, slight digression obviously unwelcome.
GN seems to getting very sharp of late.

It’s always relevant to read the original post before responding sodapop, but I wasn’t having a go at you personally, I’m sorry if it came across as sharp.

welbeck

it does affect hospitals and fellow nurses, when eg the NMC refuses to take action against a nurse who possessed the worst category of child abuse images, and another accused of rape,
on the grounds that these issues related to their personal lives, not their work. !!
nazir afzel referred to this on Women's Hour today.

Of course it affects patients, but the report is about the toxic culture of the NMC, including why employees don't feel able to whistle-blow. It's not about the NHS.

MOnica I've read the whole original report and it still doesn't change the fact that the NMC is not part of the NHS.

Almost every day somebody on GN has a moan about the NHS and this thread was going the same way.

Of course the delays in investigations will have an effect on nurses and midwives who have been accused of malpractice (which is what the NMC does), but the fact remains that the NMC is not part of the NHS and has very little control of anything which happens in hospitals or GP surgeries.

This report is about the toxic culture within the NMC itself and the effect that has had on staff working within the organisation.

it does affect hospitals and fellow nurses, when eg the NMC refuses to take action against a nurse who possessed the worst category of child abuse images, and another accused of rape,
on the grounds that these issues related to their personal lives, not their work. !!
nazir afzel referred to this on Women's Hour today.

Reading the report on the NMC it lists the effects it has had on the nurses it is meant to regulate,

To briefly quote something I quoted above.^Good nurses find themselves investigated for years over minor issues, while some bad ones escape sanction.^

I suggest that you read the BBC report www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c7287gxn7m3o It speaks of how the problems within the NMC affected nurses at work. 6 committed suicide while waiting for hearings, complaints about racism were rejected because they were not on hospital premises. Poor quality nurses who should have been suspended weren't and vice versa.

Of course this is going to affect nurses as they go about their stressful work, being unable to get redress for racist comments, having to work with poor quality nurses that are not investigated, knowing good nurses suspended for years, hearing and, perhaps knowing someone who has committed suicide. Anything that affects the morale or efficiency of staff within the NHS affects the care we get in hospital.

More seriously, doing some research, I came across a pay walled article from The Indpendent. It started: ^We’re in danger of ignoring the lessons from the Lucy Letby case
The Independent has revealed that the principal regulatory body for nursing, the NMC, showed a disturbing and unforgivable failure to act when allegations of serious unprofessional (and even criminal) behaviour came to its attention. Patients have the right to be treated with respect – and have a right to dignity^

The NMC's toxic culture lets down its members and that affects the NHS.

Louisa & Casdon sorry to have intruded on your thread, I will be more careful in future, slight digression obviously unwelcome.
GN seems to getting very sharp of late.

You’re wasting your breath LOUISA1523. Several of us have tried to point that out, but it doesn’t seem to be what people want to talk about, they obviously didn’t read the original post.

Most nurses have very little to do with the NMC ....I hand over my £120 to them every year but thats it .... no other involvement same as most other nurses .....any toxic culture is part if their own organisation not the average nurse's who are employed by NHS or other trusts

Sadly my daughter is leaving nursing because of the bullying and poor management. She is a highly qualified and experienced mental health worker but now has had enough.
What a shame the NHS has come to this.

I didn't say it was growstuff.

Bumface

growstuff

But this isn't about the NHS itself, which is a separate issue. It's about the NMC. Obviously, shortcomings in the NMC impact on the people it regulates and is investigating, but it's not the same as the culture within individual hospitals.

My point was that NMC was specifically set up to deal with these problems. Their mission statement is to "Prioritise people, practise effectively, preserves safety and promote professionalism and trust. They failed in every respect in my case and, of course numerous others. If they can't do anything about the toxic culture within NHS hospitals who can?

But people are correlating the management of the NMC and NHS management - that's my point. It is not the NMC's role to sot out the toxic culture in any NHS hospital. That's the responsibility of hospitals, who employ many more staff than nurses and midwives. The NMC's role is to deal with complaints about nurses and midwives, not any other system problems in hospitals.

BigBertha1

I'm not surprised they have uncovered what they say is a toxic culture. I found all senior management in the NHS to be a toxic culture of 'jobs for the boys/girls'. Time and again myself and other 'service managers' took concerns about members of staff upstairs but were talked down and discouraged from instituting disciplinary procedures. Re-organisation after re-organisation saw Directors safely ensconced in their role regardless of their lacklustre performance whilst everyone else had to fight for their jobs gong through one daft and expensive reviews by imported management consultants which no knowledge or experience in clinical settings. I would like to see this government robustly review all quangos and pseudo departments.

NHS management isn't a Quango.

growstuff

But this isn't about the NHS itself, which is a separate issue. It's about the NMC. Obviously, shortcomings in the NMC impact on the people it regulates and is investigating, but it's not the same as the culture within individual hospitals.

My point was that NMC was specifically set up to deal with these problems. Their mission statement is to "Prioritise people, practise effectively, preserves safety and promote professionalism and trust. They failed in every respect in my case and, of course numerous others. If they can't do anything about the toxic culture within NHS hospitals who can?

No, it's not MOnica. It's something separate. My daughter worked on a temporary contract for the NMC (couldn't wait to leave). She wasn't employed by the NHS and it's a separate organisation. This report is about the toxic culture within the NMC itself. Of course the delays and inefficiencies impact on those NHS employees who are being investigated (and patient care), but the report isn't about what goes on inside hospitals, which is a different issue.

It is about the NHS because the people whose professional practice is ruled on by the NMC are NHS employees, who are variously discriminated against and protected from proper judgement because, as the report says

There is shocking bullying, racism and incompetence in the organisation responsible for ensuring NHS nurses and midwives in the UK are safe to have around patients, a damning report says.

The independent review warns of a dangerously toxic culture within the Nursing and Midwifery Council, external (NMC), which oversees and regulates hundreds of thousands of nurses and midwives.

Good nurses find themselves investigated for years over minor issues, while some bad ones escape sanction.

I'm not surprised they have uncovered what they say is a toxic culture. I found all senior management in the NHS to be a toxic culture of 'jobs for the boys/girls'. Time and again myself and other 'service managers' took concerns about members of staff upstairs but were talked down and discouraged from instituting disciplinary procedures. Re-organisation after re-organisation saw Directors safely ensconced in their role regardless of their lacklustre performance whilst everyone else had to fight for their jobs gong through one daft and expensive reviews by imported management consultants which no knowledge or experience in clinical settings. I would like to see this government robustly review all quangos and pseudo departments.

growstuff

This is about the culture in the NMC itself rather than in hospitals, which is another issue which needs addressing.

I did wonder if people had read the article before replying. Most nurses have very minimal dealings with the NMC.

But this isn't about the NHS itself, which is a separate issue. It's about the NMC. Obviously, shortcomings in the NMC impact on the people it regulates and is investigating, but it's not the same as the culture within individual hospitals.

I first started working in the NHS in 1970 and as far back as I can remember there has been a culture of cover-ups and victimisation of whistle blowers but it seems now to be worse than ever.

Not long before I retired, I was part of quite a large group of people who felt we had to say something about a fellow member of staff. NMC, RCN and Unison offered no help beyond talking to us and nodding sympathetically.

The hospital sent a man in long belted mac to speak to us all individually on the understanding that what we said was confidential. The person we complained about was told what we said to the man in a mac in some detail and after that went out of their way to make ours lives even more miserable.

There was always a brisker than average turnover of staff and I took early retirement because of this person. Their nickname was 'The Teflon Kid'.

Something definitely needs to be done about the awful culture that has grown up in the NHS.

This is about the culture in the NMC itself rather than in hospitals, which is another issue which needs addressing.