Labour gambling with public safety

Iam64

To address one question raised by nicenanny, there are plans to build new prisons. Not because we need or aim to lock more people up but because some of our prisons aren’t fit for purpose.
We lock far too many people up. Other Northern European and Scandinavian countries imprison fewer, have good community sentences with the result their re-offending rates are less than ours.
Not complicated is it.

Which other countries? Do you have a source for this claim?

What we’re seeing, unfolding in front of our eyes, is the culmination of 14 years of Conservative austerity and privatisation.

To address one question raised by nicenanny, there are plans to build new prisons. Not because we need or aim to lock more people up but because some of our prisons aren’t fit for purpose.
We lock far too many people up. Other Northern European and Scandinavian countries imprison fewer, have good community sentences with the result their re-offending rates are less than ours.
Not complicated is it.

At least we all know now why Sunak called the election so suddenly:

1) Thames Water on verge of collapse
2) Rwanda plan not stopping the boats
3) Only a few weeks worth of places left in prisons.

The realisation of having to deal with these immediate issues made Sunak think, “sod it, I’d rather stand out in the pouring rain and call an election than try to sort out this sh**!” Let Labour do it!!!

This is a pragmatic response to inheriting a prison and justice system which is in crisis. There's always risks of reoffending even when prisoners have served a full sentence especially if we have an understaffed probation service which labour has also inherited.

The criminal system is facing total collapse in the U.K. because of the failure of the previous government to its job.

What Ms Mahmood said

She described the policy as “the only way to avert disaster”, saying if prisons were to run out of places, courts would be forced to delay jailing offenders and police unable to arrest dangerous criminals – a crisis that would leave the public at risk.
“If we fail to act now, we face the collapse of the criminal justice system. And a total breakdown of law and order,” she said at a press conference at HMP Five Wells in Northamptonshire.
From September, the government will temporarily reduce the proportion of certain custodial sentences served in prison from 50% to 40% in England and Wales. It says it will implement safeguards and exemptions to keep the public safe and clear release plans to manage offenders safely in the community.
Sentences for serious violent offences of four years or more and sexual offences will be automatically excluded. In a distinction from the end of custody supervised licence scheme (ECSL), the early release of offenders in prison for crimes related to domestic abuse will also be excluded. This will include:
Stalking offences.
Controlling or coercive behaviours in an intimate or family relationship.
Non-fatal strangulation and suffocation.
Breach of restraining order, non-molestation order, and domestic abuse protection order.

She said: “When prisons are full, violence rises – putting prison officers on the frontline at risk. When no cells are available, suspects cannot be held in custody. This means vanloads of dangerous people circling the country, with nowhere to go. The police would have to use their cells as a prison overflow, keeping officers off the streets. Soon, the courts would grind to a halt, unable to hold trials.
“With officers unable to act, criminals could do whatever they want, without consequence. We could see looters running amok, smashing in windows, robbing shops and setting neighbourhoods alight. In short, if we fail to act now, we face the collapse of the criminal justice system. And a total breakdown of law and order.”

The new justice secretary seems to be going OTT with her rhetoric over this, saying mobs could be rampaging around looting blah blah unless they do this.Seems to be about scaring people so they won’t mind so much about reduced sentences.

DamaskRose

midgey

It has been clearly stated that prisoners who are violent in any way will not be included so I don’t really see the problem.

Just this and Maizie’s comment at 17.30!

Well, actually no!
It says in today’s papers that some prisoners who have been violent will be released early, if their sentences were four years or less.

fancythat

midgey

It has been clearly stated that prisoners who are violent in any way will not be included so I don’t really see the problem.

seven years’ imprisonment for a third Class A drug trafficking offence
three years for a third domestic burglary
five years for certain firearms offences
six months for a second offence of possessing a weapon
six months for threatening with a weapon

What do you call violent?

Blame the Tories for letting it get to such a parlours state that this is the only option. What do people not understand about ‘there is no choice’. The Tories would have done it, Labour have to do it.

midgey

It has been clearly stated that prisoners who are violent in any way will not be included so I don’t really see the problem.

seven years’ imprisonment for a third Class A drug trafficking offence
three years for a third domestic burglary
five years for certain firearms offences
six months for a second offence of possessing a weapon
six months for threatening with a weapon

What do you call violent?

People have to be let out early to allow space for criminals that have commited more serious crimes to go into prison, what is the alternative at this time?

Nicenanny3

Well Labour are talking about building a million plus new homes, why aren't they talking about building more prisons?

Have you read the news? ‘The Ministry of Justice is already building six new prisons to create an extra 20,000 places as demand grows for cell spaces, partially because of the Government's campaign to hire 20,000 more police officers.
About 6,000 spaces have been created and about 10,000 will be built by the end of 2025.’
From BBC online.

Well Labour are talking about building a million plus new homes, why aren't they talking about building more prisons?

Nicenanny3

Why not build more prisons?

In the next five minutes?

Nicenanny3

Have you no concern or sympathy with Zara Aleena's aunt. Zara Aleena was murdered by a man let out of jail on licence for 9 days, if he had not been released she would still be alive.

Of course I have complete empathy for ANYONE who is murdered, in any circumstances.

It’s your title “Labours gambling with public safety” to which I object. All the things happening now are from our previous govt.

Have you no concern or sympathy with Zara Aleena's aunt. Zara Aleena was murdered by a man let out of jail on licence for 9 days, if he had not been released she would still be alive.

Wheniwasyourage

But then,*Wyllow3*, a third thread gives those who seem to need it yet another chance to have a go at the new government.

But of course! After all, be fair, they have been in power now for a whole week!

But then,*Wyllow3*, a third thread gives those who seem to need it yet another chance to have a go at the new government.

Or this

www.gransnet.com/forums/news_and_politics/a1338223-Prisons-At-Capacity-Thanks-A-Lot-Rishi

A third thread seems like overkill....

If this early release doesn’t happen. The prison system will completely collapse.

Go to Gransnet thread

www.gransnet.com/forums/news_and_politics/1338182-James-Timpson-newly-elected-prisons-minister-says-only-one-third-of-prisoners-should-definitely-be-in-prison

where there is a long, well informed, and complex discussion that answers your O/P and the why's and wherefore's.

ie its been happening already for some time
who gets to be released
why its happening.

No need to re-invent the wheel

Labour have made it quite clear the types of prisoners who be will be released! The Daily Fail are doing their usual scaremongering.

Equally needed is investment in training programmes for prisoners and an enhanced probation service that can ensure that prisoners have somewhere to live on release. Otherwise it will just be revolving doors.

The Tories were already doing this:

www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/jul/12/over-10000-prisoners-freed-70-days-early-sunak-government

Nicenanny3

Labour unveils plan to free prisoners after just 40% of sentences: New Justice Secretary says overcrowding could cause 'breakdown of law and order' despite warnings she is 'gambling with public safety' - as minister suggests jail terms should be shorter (Daily Mail)

But what choice do they have?