Social Care Brushed Aside Again

As I recall from discussing this with you previously, you said that your friend doesn’t want to have to sell her house to pay for the social care she needs ronib? She needs to make hard choices. Did she expect that Labour would promise immediate free social care for home owners? It’s not going to happen, there is no money to do that, when the new government have inherited the worst economy since 1962. That doesn’t mean social care is not being looked at in detail, but you have to be realistic.

Dickens Labour doesn’t care about my friend. The budget for net zero takes precedence. I doubt that the NHS and social care will improve any time soon.

ronib

Dickens my friend can’t wait for the next few years - and she’s facing overwhelming challenges and financial hardship now. It’s appalling that in a list of 40 bills put together by Labour nothing at all was done about social care.

I understand your feelings on the issues with your friend, I really do.

Your friend has probably been in a dire situation for some considerable time. Who kicked social care into the long grass though over the last 14 years?

Casdon is right though, Labour cannot prioritise everything in one go. Your friend's suffering is not the result of Labour excluding a bill.

Rome was not built in a day ronib. Your ire should be turned on the last government who ran social care into the ground, along with multiple other services. It’s completely irrational to expect Labour to prioritise everything in the first year when they have a mountain to climb. Ask yourself does 14 years or two weeks have more impact on the service that is delivered today?

Dickens my friend can’t wait for the next few years - and she’s facing overwhelming challenges and financial hardship now. It’s appalling that in a list of 40 bills put together by Labour nothing at all was done about social care.

ronib

Dickens where did I say “Labour should have got it sorted by the end of the week”? Thanks for detailing the exact issues. It’s bad enough to know that the whole problem of social care has been kicked into the long grass. But Labour can’t now spend the next few years dribbling the ball around. Labour is fully aware of the issues.

But Labour can’t now spend the next few years dribbling the ball around.

I quite agree.

But why not judge after the "next few years" rather than assume, as you appear to, that that is what they are going to do?

Dickens where did I say “Labour should have got it sorted by the end of the week”? Thanks for detailing the exact issues. It’s bad enough to know that the whole problem of social care has been kicked into the long grass. But Labour can’t now spend the next few years dribbling the ball around. Labour is fully aware of the issues.

I’ve been a care worker ( within a care home) for quite a while now and am paid more than the minimum wage.Care homes pay varies. We have a few dementia patients or customers as we are supposed to call them, very sad cases and difficult to treat at times.Others are like anyone else, with all the many characteristics you would expect and complex needs.You come to be very attached to some of them.
Council run care homes will pay less than private care homes usually.
Social care really needs to be addressed it’s been kicked into the long grass by successive governments.

ronib

Labour has had a long time to get to grips with social care and the NHS waiting lists etc. It was not exactly a State secret. Delaying tactics as yet another report being commissioned by Lord Darzi…. Very disappointing ? I thought the NHS waiting lists were urgent, extremely urgent even?

In 2019 the Conservative manifesto committed to a "cross-party consensus" to reform adult social care.

These reforms were to be implemented in October 2023 - but in 2022 - they announced a two-year delay. It didn't appear the necessary work to implement the scheme in even 2025 gained any traction.

... but yes, Labour should have got it "sorted" by the end of the week.

I think that considering the previous delays, Labour can be allowed a little more time to decide where the funding is going to come from.

Reducing waiting lists won’t impact greatly on social care winterwhite, because most operations are one off events, which will improve people’s lives rather than making them more dependent on social care support than they were prior to their operation. A few more people who live alone may require short term support after discharge, but the social care problem is more about long term care needs being met, whether at home or in the community than it is about short term care.

Labour has had a long time to get to grips with social care and the NHS waiting lists etc. It was not exactly a State secret. Delaying tactics as yet another report being commissioned by Lord Darzi…. Very disappointing ? I thought the NHS waiting lists were urgent, extremely urgent even?

The NHS can’t be improved in many areas without improving social care at the same time.
Use of operations speeded up - good; waiting lists go down - good. In consequence greater numbers are discharged from hospital beds, of whom the same percentage require ongoing social care. Therefore overall increase in numbers requiring social care. Oh. Oops. No more care workers. Delayed discharges increase; fewer operations can be performed because patient throughput stalls; therefore no point in speeding up operations; therefore waiting lists rise again….

We need to bear in mind that the Kings Speech covers the immediate future, not the whole course of the parliament. Many issues were not specifically mentioned, often because there is a longer term plan which won’t see immediate results, and/or where the path to reach the desired position is several steps away from the current position. I believe that is the case for social care. It would only be a sticking plaster over a mortal wound if the government said it could fix it in the first year. I’m sure the work to identify the best way forward is starting, that’s the best we can hope for in year one.

If Labour don't fix social care (and the NHS) they will pay for it at the next General Election. Simply raising wages for care staff won't fix it given unemployment is low and post-Brexit we are not seeing care worker immigrants.

I am disappointed, but not surprised that Social Care wasn’t mentioned.

Starmer has said from the word go, that he will never over-promise and underdeliver, consequently he has been forced to prioritise and the NHS, the climate and housing amongst other things have taken priority this time around.

However, when economic growth returns to the U.K. I will expect and put pressure on my MP to provide 2 further things. The first is to remove the cap on child benefit and to provide or begin to plan for a comprehensive social care system in the U.K. .

If you bother to read the link that Casdon posted it refers to Germany's Health and care system being kept afloat by migrant workers, which is pretty much the same as the UK as we have identical problems with regard to an ageing population. The big difference is that Germany's migrants come from other countries that are members of the EU (mostly from Eastern Europe) topped up with non European migrants. Since Brexit we have few Europeans working in our Care and Health settings and most of the migrant workers come from outside the EU. Daughter is a doctor in Wales and she says lots of Spanish nurses worked in Welsh hospitals but they all went home post Brexit! fwiw There are 131,000 vacancies for care workers ATM despite 25% of our current workers being migrants. It's impossible to have a decent standard of care if there are not enough trained care workers.

paddyann54

I think the WM government doesn’t, like change.The so called war on drugs being a fine example.In SCotland we wanted to change how we deal with drugs ,saving lives as a result.It was vetoed by WM who insist it must be done their way.Isn,t the idea that doing something the same way with the same bad result a sign of certainly incompetence but maybe madness? Or just us who think changing a bad law that’s instrumental in many losing their lives would be a good thing. Care is another example it needs reworked in everyone’s interest,we,ve done some work within our limited budget but much more needs done

Maybe the SNP's proposed decriminalisation of drugs for personal use is just one of the reasons the SNP were decimated in the GE.
Scottish elderly care is as much a lottery as anywhere else the UK.

Casdon

I don’t think there’s too much to learn from Germany, it’s not all sunshine and roses in their care system.
www.euractiv.com/section/health-consumers/news/migrant-workers-keep-german-care-system-afloat-say-experts/

My friend's experience of finding social care for his mother, who lived in Germany wasn't that much different from the UK. The care home offered by the insurance system was about 75km away, so eventually the family paid for a private home. The care/medical co-ordination didn't always work properly. The only difference was that my friend's mother had paid into the German insurance system, so paperwork went through the insurance company rather than the NHS/social services. My friend's mother's home wouldn't have been used to pay for the care, although it was in the end anyway because a private home was used.

One family’s experience is not the measure of the effectiveness of a system, it’s just one family’s experience ronib. The best care system for older people in the world according to expert analysis is in Norway. Generally, the Scandinavian countries are the most inclusive and have the most satisfied populations.

Casdon that’s not the experience of the German family I know. Older people in Germany are given good care.

I think the WM government doesn’t, like change.The so called war on drugs being a fine example.In SCotland we wanted to change how we deal with drugs ,saving lives as a result.It was vetoed by WM who insist it must be done their way.Isn,t the idea that doing something the same way with the same bad result a sign of certainly incompetence but maybe madness? Or just us who think changing a bad law that’s instrumental in many losing their lives would be a good thing. Care is another example it needs reworked in everyone’s interest,we,ve done some work within our limited budget but much more needs done

I don’t think there’s too much to learn from Germany, it’s not all sunshine and roses in their care system.
www.euractiv.com/section/health-consumers/news/migrant-workers-keep-german-care-system-afloat-say-experts/

ronib

Well does Germany have this problem Dickens? Or is it uniquely Uk?

Good question ronib.

I haven't made any studies or comparisons.

Social care insurance might be a workable solution.

What is national insurance paid for? Perhaps we should not stop paying it ( as our individual incomes allow) at SP age so there is some money for social care?

foxie48

"Migrant workers have been part of the UK's social care sector for decades. Overseas workers plug vital labour gaps across almost every healthcare profession, while one in four care workers and home carers was born outside of the UK, according to the Office for National Statistics.11 Mar 2024"

Yes, of course they do.

I dont think anyone complains about that

The system , pre about 1995 worked great.
What happened after that, doesnt.

And I think you will have seen it discussed on GN before. I have certainly said it.

You are mixing up 2 things.
I suspect very deliberately.

I will say sorry in advance, if you are not.