Where is Nigel Farage?

I think that's a fair point growstuff. People have rendered both those terms meaningless.

Are you sure you don't just mean "left wing"?

Mt61

Sorry, factually incorrect, have I missed something regarding the wars that are currently ongoing? You seemed to have forgot to comment on those. And please stop with the ‘far right’ rhetoric, it’s simply right wing, the fact people like to shout far right only demonstrates how far to the left these people actually are. As for the rabbit hole, you then go on to quote from the LA Times and CNN which, without any argument, are incredibly left wing outlets so might I suggest that anyone who quotes from those have, shall we say, gone down the far left rabbit hole?

Syracute

Sorry, factually incorrect, have I missed something regarding the wars that are currently ongoing? You seemed to have forgot to comment on those. And please stop with the ‘far right’ rhetoric, it’s simply right wing, the fact people like to shout far right only demonstrates how far to the left these people actually are. As for the rabbit hole, you then go on to quote from the LA Times and CNN which, without any argument, are incredibly left wing outlets so might I suggest that anyone who quotes from those have, shall we say, gone down the far left rabbit hole?

I dont think these terms work much anymore anyway, when I see the term right wing used these days I tend to ignore it, its been used for everyone from JKRowling to trump. In fact that's wrong I dont ignore it I go and have a look at the persons views, I have found lots of interesting people from listening to people scream 'far right'.

What I notice about Trump is that he doesn't actually construct an argument. He doesn't debate - he talks in soundbites and short staccato sentences.

By contrast when you listen to our UK politicians - both Left and Right, they actually appear to have a grasp (mostly) of what they are talking about, present their argument without histrionics and - certainly when being interviewed, sound articulate - and able to speak in full sentences.

The exceptions are Boris Johnson - very articulate 'on paper', but hopeless in debate, falling back on utterances and mantras. And Farage who, though articulate, simply constructs hundreds of different ways to say the same thing - stop the boats and make Britain Great Again.

The
Polarisation of debate and level of disdains - anger expressed by the vocal majority is alive in the US and Europe, including the UK
Our red wall seat saw the Conservative vote halved by Reform. This Labour voter will be relieved if the Tories regroup on the centre right and provide effective opposition. That won’t happen if Braverman becomes leader

Wyllow3

Farage attended only the first "pomp and circumstance" bit, (photo op), didnt stay for Kings Speech.

Why the interest some ask? Because Trump and Farage share dangerous and destructive and divisive politics - this might not matter to some, but it matters a great deal to those of us who value real democracy and a fairer society.

I agree. They have dreadful and dangerous people like Steve Bannon (currently in prison) in common.

Casdon

Here we go again. Labour won 412 seats. That means that in 412 constituencies they were the most popular party. Very nearly two thirds of the UK constituencies preferred Labour to any other party.
I don’t think that we are a divided nation. I think there is a hardcore right and a hardcore left, which together make up less than 25% of the electorate. The vast majority of people are in the middle three quarters, and don’t support extremist or hardcore views of any kind. The ones on the periphery shout the loudest, and the rest of us listen too often.

Casdon I'm not talking about strictly hardcore Left or Right -as you say, they are a minority ( a vocal one albeit).

I mean that the electorate swings - broadly if you like - from one side to the other.

With respect, I beg to differ about us not being a divided nation. You only have to read GN N&P threads to discover that. We are not at war with each other, but there is a very definite divide. There was a thread quite recently which was, basically, a 'warning' about Labour coming for your money - the views expressed were quite polarised.

I believe there is a section of society, popularly called the Red Wall, who feel disenfranchised, and very alienated from those they think of as the 'elite' - the elite in this case being the supposedly educated middle-class, usually 'down South', and not infrequently Labour voters, who they believe don't live "in the real world", are too woke, and not particularly patriotic because of their stance on immigration and the EU.

They gave Boris Johnson his whacking majority and they are waiting to see how things pan out under Labour. Inevitably it will be some time before anyone sees much in the way of change, and how much of that change will improve their lives remains to be seen.

So yes, I do think we are a divided nation - just not in the same way as the USA where the divisions are stark, and dangerous.

Thanks Syracute - the truth needs repeating in the hope some might even reflect in their beliefs

Gg13 - I wish Farage was given less attention. Sadly his Reform party too many votes from the Conservatives. They’re having their Corbyn chaos moment and hopefully they’ll get a strong leader and rebuild (as Labour has thankfully)
His rhetoric appeals to some - as we see on gransnet

Trump threatens democracy itself. Read what he actually said to try and win the vote in Georgia in the last elections.

these were recorded, direct phone calls from Trump

He attempts to bully Raffensperger, the returning officer, who was Republican himself, but not to be corrupted - nor threatened!

Trump told Raffensperger, "What I want to do is this. I just want to find, uh, 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have, because we won the state

During the call, Trump falsely suggested that Raffensperger could have committed a criminal offense by refusing to overturn the state's election results

Never to be forgotten.

Another danger: to poorer people in the appalling medical system. Trump did his best and partly succeeded in dismantling Obamacare (health care for those not able to pay heavy medical insurance bills).

And this will continue: Trump is now trying to change the judicial system as fast as possible with often inexperienced politically appointed judges to favour his views.

And lastly: Trump and crazy ideas as evidenced in last presidency: for example the ideas on Covid "inject yourselves with disinfectant" and similar invective, which his medical advisors had to undo as fast as they could.

Mt61

Can someone explain how Trump is dangerous? The President who didn’t get involved in any wars, who calmed down North Korea’s ‘rocket man’, who kept Russia and China quiet, who got closer to peace in the Middle East than anyone else? Or Biden, under who’s watch Russia has invaded Ukraine, all hells let loose in Palestine and Israel, and it is generally accepted we have never been closer to WWIII than we are right now? You certainly may not like Trump and that’s fine, but please don’t suggest he is the dangerous one. And if you like to call him divisive, he’s only divisive to those who don’t agree with him. I could say Biden is more divisive looking at the current state of the USA. And if anyone gets their ‘facts’ off the BBC about Trump then… well, enough said.

All of your claims are factually incorrect and can be disputed . It seems you have gone down a far right rabbit hole of misinformation .
The LA Times wrote a very good article about Trumps inneffectual diplomacy regards N Korea . Bolton former Trump advisor said before his visit he showed no interest in preparing for it and was just there for the photo op. A well regarded Korean specialist was quoted as saying Trump left it in a more dangerous state .
CNN has an interesting article on how Trump was soft on Russia in 37 instances.
The Israeli/ Palestine issue is far too complex to think any easy solution . Trump has no concrete proposals and is vague and elusive on this subject . He did say he would crack down on protestors that are for Palestine on University campuses . So suppression of free speech .
Trump is not well educated on policies or history . He relies on sound bites that often have no factual basis . This is not presidential material . It is though a powder keg of danger . I suggest you read more on his ex advisor Bolton who will verify with facts Trumps inability to lead . The USA only survived the last Trump presidency because of the brakes many of his advisors put on him . Those advisors would not be there in the next administration and therefor it could be a very dangerous presidency if Trump is elected .

Galaxy

Yeah look what happens to the centrists though (I am one) they end up like Macron.

You can’t compare British politics to French politics.

The British have traditionally always been centre left/right. It just so happened that Brexit skewed politics in the U.K. for a few years and the Tories ended up being in the dark place that they find themselves.

For Macron, not got, sorry.

That was a very good example of people power in France though Galaxy, wasn’t it? People were against a right wing government and banded together, turning out to vote to stop it happening. They have certainly created other issues got Macron, but probably not insurmountable ones. I suspect if the chips were down, the UK electorate would do the same thing.

Yeah look what happens to the centrists though (I am one) they end up like Macron.

Here we go again. Labour won 412 seats. That means that in 412 constituencies they were the most popular party. Very nearly two thirds of the UK constituencies preferred Labour to any other party.
I don’t think that we are a divided nation. I think there is a hardcore right and a hardcore left, which together make up less than 25% of the electorate. The vast majority of people are in the middle three quarters, and don’t support extremist or hardcore views of any kind. The ones on the periphery shout the loudest, and the rest of us listen too often.

foxie48

Anyone who is a "friend" of Trump" should know that Trump only cares about himself, he has zero loyalty to anyone. I've just listened to " Trumped" on BBC sounds, the story of Trump building a golf course in Scotland. Salmond and the Scottish parliament got well and truly burned by him. What a horrible selfish amoral man he is. Worth a listen.

I agree!

Wyllow3

Farage attended only the first "pomp and circumstance" bit, (photo op), didnt stay for Kings Speech.

Why the interest some ask? Because Trump and Farage share dangerous and destructive and divisive politics - this might not matter to some, but it matters a great deal to those of us who value real democracy and a fairer society.

Not strictly true.
It was the debate in the Commons he didn’t stay for- he was there for the Kings speech
From the DT
Two hours later, the Commons was packed – Labour MPs had spilled over on to the opposition benches right at the back – for the start of the debate on the king’s speech. Though there was a notable absence.
Nigel Farage had turned up for the pageantry earlier in the day but there was no sign of him when the business started in earnest .

Dickens

Farage, Johnson and Truss are keeping-their-hands-in.

Looking forward to the day when Britain returns to the Right. The hard-Right if Truss has her way.

They're networking.

And as we lurch from Right to Left and back again. It's only a matter of time. Because we are a very divided nation and there's no consensus on working together for the good of the country. The electorate will soon tire of Labour, it's inevitable, and back we will swing to the Right again.

I agree Dickens. In time (not quite yet) after a honeymoon period, people will vote Labour out. It’s inevitable as you say. Let’s just hope the changes they make are good ones. KS was elected on 32% of the votes. Less than Corbyn generated apparently.

I wish Labour well in their endeavours. I won’t ever vote Tory again that much is certain.

Did you read the trump shooting thread Wyllow? Many post basically celebrating it, I think there is a lot of divisiveness at the moment, I think the left are very much part of it I am afraid. I dont think there is much democracy in shooting presidential candidates.

Can someone explain how Trump is dangerous? The President who didn’t get involved in any wars, who calmed down North Korea’s ‘rocket man’, who kept Russia and China quiet, who got closer to peace in the Middle East than anyone else? Or Biden, under who’s watch Russia has invaded Ukraine, all hells let loose in Palestine and Israel, and it is generally accepted we have never been closer to WWIII than we are right now? You certainly may not like Trump and that’s fine, but please don’t suggest he is the dangerous one. And if you like to call him divisive, he’s only divisive to those who don’t agree with him. I could say Biden is more divisive looking at the current state of the USA. And if anyone gets their ‘facts’ off the BBC about Trump then… well, enough said.

Farage attended only the first "pomp and circumstance" bit, (photo op), didnt stay for Kings Speech.

Why the interest some ask? Because Trump and Farage share dangerous and destructive and divisive politics - this might not matter to some, but it matters a great deal to those of us who value real democracy and a fairer society.

Syracute

Dickens

Farage, Johnson and Truss are keeping-their-hands-in.

Looking forward to the day when Britain returns to the Right. The hard-Right if Truss has her way.

They're networking.

And as we lurch from Right to Left and back again. It's only a matter of time. Because we are a very divided nation and there's no consensus on working together for the good of the country. The electorate will soon tire of Labour, it's inevitable, and back we will swing to the Right again.

I think the British electorate showed quite strongly that the right wing is no longer an acceptable option .
I am curious if Farage paid for this trip himself or at the cost of the taxpayer ?
Trump is not an elected official yet so I don’t see the point of him being there .
I also didn’t see the point of Boris Johnson Who spoke to an empty audience , Truss and for whatever reason Russell Brand ??!!! I can guarantee few of the American delegates knew who these Brits are . Boris‘s empty audience showed that !
I have great hope that the Labour Party will get things done . My husband and I looked at the proposals in the Kings Speech and were very happy with what we saw .

👍👍.

Farage gets (rather like Trump) “donations” from his followers or supporters of his company named Reform. That is what is being used.

Yes I have high hopes of our new government, and do not accept the premise that a hard right government will inevitably get elected next time.

Nothing is certain, but that is unlikely imo

Dickens

Farage, Johnson and Truss are keeping-their-hands-in.

Looking forward to the day when Britain returns to the Right. The hard-Right if Truss has her way.

They're networking.

And as we lurch from Right to Left and back again. It's only a matter of time. Because we are a very divided nation and there's no consensus on working together for the good of the country. The electorate will soon tire of Labour, it's inevitable, and back we will swing to the Right again.

I think the British electorate showed quite strongly that the right wing is no longer an acceptable option .
I am curious if Farage paid for this trip himself or at the cost of the taxpayer ?
Trump is not an elected official yet so I don’t see the point of him being there .
I also didn’t see the point of Boris Johnson Who spoke to an empty audience , Truss and for whatever reason Russell Brand ??!!! I can guarantee few of the American delegates knew who these Brits are . Boris‘s empty audience showed that !
I have great hope that the Labour Party will get things done . My husband and I looked at the proposals in the Kings Speech and were very happy with what we saw .