Vote once and never vote again

Casdon

My brother lived and worked in America for a number of years flappergirl, and he said the biggest mistake we make in the UK is in expecting that because we share a language and some elements of culture, that average Americans think like we do. He said that in fact they are as different from us as people from any other country. Your post illustrates that well, and you're right.

My brother worked from age 26 to 66 in America. He believes his office contemporaries as different to us as those from anywhere else. He found his salary, retirement pot, health insurance, standard of living, and working conditions far superior, was glad of the opportunities and delighted to come home in the end.

We worked for him for several years whilst my health was sorted (impossible, it seemed, in the UK) and were always astounded by the religious differences and availability of guns in shops/cars - odd.

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202407/medium-321803-votes-share-by-age.png https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202407/medium-255713-lib-dem-favoured.png

By whom? Would that be Farage, by any chance? It's propaganda.

Reform did worst among the 18-24 age group than any other party. They are the least-favoured party by the majority of people and would do very badly if we had AV.

I have read that a lot of youngsters would vote reform, so Starmer might not get what he thinks he will anyway!

JenniferEccles

Is it really any different though to Starmer who is planning to rig our voting system here by giving the vote to sixteen year old, who after years of Left wing brainwashing in our education system, would be inclined to vote Labour?

Oh for goodness sake! The Trump situation is nothing like the UK voting system, thankfully.

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

For an example of that check out the X clip on LBC’s Ben Kentish’s show @BenKentish. Look for the one: I’m not racist, I have a tattoo. It’s about why the caller believes Kamala Harris is not fit for office - based on no evidence whatsoever.

Nothing has changed my belief on the inadvisability of giving 16 year olds the vote and the idea thaat giving them the vote a mere 2 years earlier than they get it now will have any dramatic affect on their futures is an illusion.

Whilst largely agreeing with you MOnica I can't help but consider Winston Churchill's comment about the electorate in general;

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

... and he wasn't referring to 16-year-olds.

There was a debate on GN between two posters some time ago now where one argued that her opinion, irrespective of any factual evidence, was as equally valid as any opinion based on identifiable data and facts.

The poster felt strongly about an issue, and would vote accordingly. And there are various bodies, think-tanks, groups, organisations, and populist 'priests' ready and waiting to engage or enrol such acolytes.

This worries me just as much as any idealistic or naive 16-year-old.

JenniferEccles

Is it really any different though to Starmer who is planning to rig our voting system here by giving the vote to sixteen year old, who after years of Left wing brainwashing in our education system, would be inclined to vote Labour?

Goodness! A very bold statement!

To compare Starmer with Trump is really pushing the boundaries! There’s still plenty of Tory youngsters.

Here's JD Vance advocating that all children have the vote but those votes be controlled by the parents while, at the same time, diminishing the voting rights of adults who do not have children:

www.msnbc.com/the-reidout/reidout-blog/jd-vance-parents-more-votes-childless-rcna163670

Merion

Here it is, WWM2.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/jul/27/misogyny-emergency-huge-outpouring-kamala-harris-us-electionction

Thankyou😊.

It is worth a read.

Here it is, WWM2.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/jul/27/misogyny-emergency-huge-outpouring-kamala-harris-us-electionction

There is a very good article in the Observer today by Carole Callawaldr in which she argues that deeply unpleasant misogyny runs right through USA society, and is one of the most dangerous weapons used on earth.
Sorry I can’t do links, but it is certainly worth a read, and has huge implications for Harris.

I think that is correct. In my view the fact that she is a woman goes more against her chances than the fact that she is a woman of colour.

I agree on the whole about Voters being 18, although in the greater scheme of things we find people of all ages who are not particularly interested or well informed on politics.

The difference for me was going to uni, although I broadly kept the flavour of my very political background I encountered far more POV and different discussions.

Time to re-make 'The Great Dictator'.

I had a precocious interest in politics, it started when I was 4, so by most standards by 16 I was deeply knowledgeable of politics and world affairs and, with a father in the army I had lived in 4 different countries.

But I can remember the subject if votes for 16 year olds coming up when I was at that age and I can remember. being opposed to it for the simple reason that knowledgeable and interested as I was in politics, my life experience was very limited.

In fact with in a year of leaving school at 18 and going to my first choice university in the north east and meeting people whose childhoods had been so different to mine and being open to so many new experiences I had completely revised my understanding on so many issues that i completey changed my political views and party allegiance.

Nothing has changed my belief on the inadvisability of giving 16 year olds the vote and the idea thaat giving them the vote a mere 2 years earlier than they get it now will have any dramatic affect on their futures is an illusion.

How in the world would giving votes to sixteen-year-olds be vote rigging when 59% of young people this month did not vote Labour? The parties that gained most traction from young people were the Greens and LibDems, together taking 34% of the vote - more than any other age group. Why shouldn’t they be allowed to vote on their own futures? If you are arguing they are not mature enough to vote sensibly then I would counterargue that old people don’t vote sensibly. Despite 14 years of austerity, decline, chaos and sleaze, 46% of old people still voted Tory and another 15% voted for Reform - a party whose only purpose is to create racial division.

The majority of people who voted for Brexit were old, many of them dead before the UK finally left the EU c/f David Aaronovitch’s video for Newsnight The Brexit Generation is Dying Out. It’s the young who are having their futures damaged by this catastrophically bad decision. One can only hope that the new government is able to repair some of the damage.

Now back to Trump’s desire to become a dictator …

JenniferEccles

Is it really any different though to Starmer who is planning to rig our voting system here by giving the vote to sixteen year old, who after years of Left wing brainwashing in our education system, would be inclined to vote Labour?

Hmmm....a Daily Mail acolyte I assume?🤔🤔🤔

westendgirl

I wonder if he knows what he is saying , as half the time his speeches are contradictory and make little sense.

The tables have been turned on Trump as regards specualtion re his increasing age and his apparently diminishing mental faculties.
The aces he thought he had up his sleeve all fixated on President Biden's age - that's all. No mention of policies, no positive and uplifting rhetoric, just dis-jointed raving solely concerning Biden's age. Plus, he keeps breaking out in piss-poor comedy voice impersonations of those who incur his disdain, like a semi-articulate "Spitting Image".
Now he's the dithering, memory-challenged old man.......just shows how politics can change faster than the weather.
😟😟😟🤪🤪🤪

JenniferEccles

Is it really any different though to Starmer who is planning to rig our voting system here by giving the vote to sixteen year old, who after years of Left wing brainwashing in our education system, would be inclined to vote Labour?

You’re equating a political regime which is proposing to increase democracy by widening the eligibility to vote with a regime which Trump is proposing will remove the right for anybody to vote - seriously?

JenniferEccles, any sixteen year old has spent their entire school career under a Conservative government, which set the curriculum, Ofsted criteria and Key Stage SATs.

You ve really lost the plot Jennifereccles your right wing brain is in turmoil clutching at a straw

I don’t like Starmer but, far out, I’d trust him as a leader a hundred times more than Trump. I think he (T) is becoming dangerous. Listening too much to his mate Putin.

JenniferEccles

Is it really any different though to Starmer who is planning to rig our voting system here by giving the vote to sixteen year old, who after years of Left wing brainwashing in our education system, would be inclined to vote Labour?

Are you really equating Starmer with Trump?

And where is your proof of left-wing 'brainwashing' in our education system?

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

I do hope that the American people are giving serious thought to these upcoming elections and aren’t clouded in apathy, thinking that what they, as individuals, think won’t make any difference? Apathy is the great enemy for any country.

Is it really any different though to Starmer who is planning to rig our voting system here by giving the vote to sixteen year old, who after years of Left wing brainwashing in our education system, would be inclined to vote Labour?